No you're not being boring but you are eliding whole skeins of interesting
history and culture to homogenize it to your own particular view point. IMO,
you are ascending olympia one step at a time and using that old punk excuse
to pretend you're not.
Clearly, you think that some cultures are 'better' than others when it comes
to this touchy subject, otherwise you wouldn't have make that remark about
'non-western' - I'm interested in hearing on what criteria you come to this
conclusion.
I'm reminded of Terry Eagleton's remark about 'ideology' - if you think that
eveything is based around ideology, then the word 'ideology' becomes
meaningless. I think that when you use your word performance to embrace all
of of poetical practice, 'performance' becomes meaningless ...
Regards
Roger
On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 12:19 PM, cris cheek <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> indd Roger
>
> i'm being boring
>
> i'm saying, again, that poetry has a long history of performing on and off
> the page
>
> and that in many cultures the page still does not pertain
>
> they are not mutually exclusive
>
> they support the same premise
>
> where there is not a page the poem in in the body, the mouth the air the
> ear and the memory of the listener
>
> where there is a a page the poem is both on it and off it (one might say
> that they take part in differing models of communication . one ritual and
> the other transmission)
>
> sometimes when it is off the page (perhaps it is both indeed there is a lot
> of that about ;=0) then it approaches other art forms . . unsurprising . .
> song, for exmle, and monologue and drama and stand up and live art et al
>
>
> what i often hear and i was hearing it again but perhaps it was my fault
> for mishearing it . is the sense that either is somehow somehow superior
>
> or more evolved or more sophisticated or more complex or more generally a
> subject of disdain
>
> and as an old punk i am more inclined to force my head up my ass under such
> circumstances
>
>
> cris
>
>
>
>
> On Oct 27, 2011, at 6:54 AM, Roger Day wrote:
>
> > Oh, cris. Your Olympian view is so ... bracing. But what do you mean,
> > 'non-western'? I don't understand ... I thought, like Dave, that the
> 'west'
> > - whatever that is - still has some idea of multiple performances of a
> poem
> > ...
> >
> > Didn't Tennyson do one of the first wax cylinder recordings?
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 7:37 AM, David Bircumshaw <
> [log in to unmask]
> >> wrote:
> >
> >> cris cheek wrote on Tue, 25 Oct 2011 21:25:19 -0400
> >>
> >> " . . but since it's clear that poetry has for several thousand years
> been
> >> (in many cultures) integrally implicated in the deveopments of
> performance,
> >> from early epic through the mead halls into contemporary rap . the
> >> non-western acceptance that poetry is to be enjoyed both through reading
> on
> >> the page and being explored off the page
> >>
> >> what on earth is the problem here?
> >>
> >> point-scoring is as addled a past-time in respect of poetry on the page
> as
> >> off the page"
> >>
> >> I agree, point-scoring poetry is an addled pastime, so in what context
> >> would
> >> anyone want to 'quantify' 'quality' in poetry? Which was the question
> >> asked.
> >>
> >> Other than that, I am interested in your version of literary history,
> this
> >> one where say Tennyson or Dylan Thomas or Wordsworth rejected the
> >> performing
> >> of poetry, as did the Elizabethan and Jacobean playwrights, or the whole
> of
> >> Russian poetry, or Lorca, or Miguel Hernandez, while that most literary
> and
> >> textual poetic culture in China has presumably migrated across a
> >> continent.
> >>
> >> best
> >>
> >> dave
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> David Joseph Bircumshaw
> >> "The surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe
> is
> >> that none of it has tried to contact us."
> >> - Calvin & Hobbes
> >> Website and A Chide's Alphabet
> >> http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk
> >> The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
> >> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/david.bircumshaw
> >> twitter: http://twitter.com/bucketshave
> >> blog: http://groggydays.blogspot.com/
> >>
>
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