I agree that there are instances that braking the law is more moral than
not braking the law. But is the amount of oppression and social injustice
going on in England currently so worse than in other modern societies as
to make disrespect for the law more acceptable in England than in other
countries? Or, should this kind of rioting be considered acceptable in
almost every country? What are the countries that, if this kind of rioting
emerged, disrespect for the law should be considered unacceptable? My
point is that the social injustice in modern England does not compare with
slavery and other clearly immoral historical situations that justify
braking the law in this way. (Note that most people who are being victims
of the violence during these riots are not to blame for the rioters fate).
On the contrary, as a Brazilian who lived in England for nine years and in
Canada for 1.5 year, my impression is that England is one of the countries
where this type of law braking is least justified. If respect for the law
is not enforced in a modern progressive democratic society such as
England, this would be a very bad example for the rest of the world, where
people are still far behind England in terms of social justice (including
income/resources distribution) and democratic practices.
Reducing income (resource) inequality is important to avoid law braking,
but it is not enough; modern states must also have strong police and
justice systems to avoid law braking.

Paulo


Paulo Nadanovsky
Associate Professor
Department of Epidemiology
Institute of Social Medicine
University of the State of Rio de Janeiro



> I wasn't suggesting that what is going on in england was a race riot. I was
> suggesting that people who are oppressed will sometime riot rather than
take
> their oppression in silence. . . Whether race or class or something
else.
> .
> . there is more going on than just no respect for the law.
>
> On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 11:23 AM, Laura
> <[log in to unmask]>wrote:
>
>> Hang on a bit people in the US, these are not race riots and race is
not
>> an
>> issue in this flare up.  Having just spent a wakeful night with local
rioting going on round the corner, with white/black and every shade in
between - in Oxford!!! - my view is that these young people are hugely
angry: angry at two-faced, champagne lifestyle politicians, media
moghuls
>> and businessmen repeatedly saying 'we are all in this together' when
this is
>> a blatant lie which is perceptible to even the most poorly educated
person.
>>   They are angry that they the small allowance they had to go to
college
>> has
>> been scrapped, there is no change of going to university with tuition fees
>> of £9k a year, that there are no jobs, they have no access to the
possessions by which society measures social success and worth, and no
hope.
>>  It isn't right to do what they are doing, and they lack a coherent
>> cause or
>> voice, but boy, are they angry.
>> Best wishes and please keep the personal insults of this list!
>> Kind regards
>>  Laura Davis
>> 3 Hillsale Piece
>> Oxford
>> OX4 4GG
>> 01865 236224
>> 07913 424731
>> On 10 Aug 2011, at 14:40, Vernellia Randall wrote:
>> You insituated that being a lawyer meant that I should always support the
>> law. I tried to explain that I bring a different perspective to the law
-- a
>> perspective born out of my racial history. If explaining my background and
>> how it affects my perspective is playing the race card -- then I take
no
>> shame - I played the race card and I am proud of it. Because the race card
>> was appropriate under the circumstance,
>> My experience is the rioting in your own community does bring change --
because white communities in their fear of the overspill will take at
least
>> temporary action to institute improvement in the black communities. On
Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 9:30 AM, Axel Kaehne <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>> Maybe you should think a bit harder about what you said. The law breaking
>>> they have condoned is directed against oppressive laws, laws that we have
>>> come to consider unjust. That distinction ever occurred to you or have
you
>>> missed freshers' introduction when you studied law?
>>> The law breaking in London is directed against some of the poorest
communities.
>>> And stop playing the race card! It wont help you anymore. The victims of
>>> the rioters in London, living in the most deprived areas, are black
too. So
>>> trashing their communities is not going to improve anything!
>>> On 10 Aug 2011, at 14:22, Vernellia Randall wrote:
>>> Of course I condone law breaking. My great-grandparents were slave. My
father lived during jim crow and was almost killed by a white man for
saying
>>> hello to a white woman and depsite his college education had to drive
taxis
>>> and work in factories. I went to segregated schools because of the
law.
>>> I
>>> went to colored bathrooms because of the law. I had to sit in the back of
>>> the bus because of the law . . .
>>> Yes I condone law breaking as did Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Jr.
Jesus
>>> and many others.
>>> I stand by my statement -- Breaking the law is not the worst thing --
Accepting oppression quietly is far worst.
>>>  On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 9:13 AM, Axel Kaehne <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:
>>>> You are a professor in LAW and you condone law breaking??? Geez, you
really need to check if your head is screwed on the right way! On 10
Aug 2011, at 13:55, Vernellia Randall wrote:
>>>> Rioting is not the worst thing in the world. Accepting oppression
quietly
>>>> is far worst.
>>>> On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 8:48 AM, Dennis Raphael
>>>> <[log in to unmask]>wrote:
>>>>> *Poverty* is the parent of *revolution* and *crime  --* *Aristotle*
>>>> --
>>>> *Vernellia R. Randall*
>>>> Professor of Law
>>>> University of Dayton
>>>> *No Democrats! No Republicans! Go Green!
>>>> Life in a Post-racial America. Ain't it Grand!
>>>> **A rising tide lifts all boats, sinks all rafts and drowns the
people
>>>> treading water!!*
>>>>  I am a fan of Reclamation Gallery
>>>> http://www.reclamationgallery.com/
>>>> Webinar Video's
>>>> http://vimeo.com/profvrandall/albums
>>>> Race, Racism and American Law
>>>> Http://academic.udayton.edu/race/ <http://academic.udayton.edu/race/>
>>>>  Dr Axel Kaehne
>>>> Welsh Centre for Learning Disabilities
>>>> School of Medicine
>>>> Heath Park
>>>> Cardiff
>>>> CF14 4XN
>>>> Phone 029 20 687 212
>>>> Fax 029 20 687 100
>>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>> http://medicine.cf.ac.uk/en/person/mr-axel-kaehne/
>>> --
>>> *Vernellia R. Randall*
>>> Professor of Law
>>> University of Dayton
>>> *No Democrats! No Republicans! Go Green!
>>> Life in a Post-racial America. Ain't it Grand!
>>> **A rising tide lifts all boats, sinks all rafts and drowns the people
treading water!!*
>>>  I am a fan of Reclamation Gallery
>>> http://www.reclamationgallery.com/
>>> Webinar Video's
>>> http://vimeo.com/profvrandall/albums
>>> Race, Racism and American Law
>>> Http://academic.udayton.edu/race/ <http://academic.udayton.edu/race/>
>>>  Dr Axel Kaehne
>>> Welsh Centre for Learning Disabilities
>>> School of Medicine
>>> Heath Park
>>> Cardiff
>>> CF14 4XN
>>> Phone 029 20 687 212
>>> Fax 029 20 687 100
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>> http://medicine.cf.ac.uk/en/person/mr-axel-kaehne/
>> --
>> *Vernellia R. Randall*
>> Professor of Law
>> University of Dayton
>> *No Democrats! No Republicans! Go Green!
>> Life in a Post-racial America. Ain't it Grand!
>> **A rising tide lifts all boats, sinks all rafts and drowns the people
treading water!!*
>>  I am a fan of Reclamation Gallery
>> http://www.reclamationgallery.com/
>> Webinar Video's
>> http://vimeo.com/profvrandall/albums
>> Race, Racism and American Law
>> Http://academic.udayton.edu/race/ <http://academic.udayton.edu/race/>
>
>
> --
> *Vernellia R. Randall*
> Professor of Law
> University of Dayton
>
> *No Democrats! No Republicans! Go Green!
> Life in a Post-racial America. Ain't it Grand!
> **A rising tide lifts all boats, sinks all rafts and drowns the people
treading water!!*
>  I am a fan of Reclamation Gallery
> http://www.reclamationgallery.com/
>
> Webinar Video's
> http://vimeo.com/profvrandall/albums
>
> Race, Racism and American Law
> Http://academic.udayton.edu/race/
>