I'm wondering if you can please give me the original publisher of that
edition to which you refer. It would be of great help to me. I was
under the impression that that subtitle was added for a later
reprinting of that edition.
Best,
Amy
On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 2:15 PM, N.W. Azal <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Radical Traditionalism as a term has been in use for a lot longer to
> describe Evola's brand of Traditionalism than just the last decade in the
> Anglophone world. The 1972 Italian (3rd) edition of his Men Among Ruins uses
> it as a sub-title (i.e. Postwar Reflections of a Radical Traditionalist). I
> am trying to pin Evola himself on the specific use of the term, but it is
> not as sketchy as it seems. To hyphenate Julius Evola's Traditionalism with
> Radical goes back to several debates raging within Traditionalist circles
> themselves: 1) the debate between Evola and Guenon on the priestly caste
> versus the warrior caste in the overall intiatic function (esp. re:
> alchemy), and 2) the privileging of the pre-Abrahamic/non-Abrahamic
> traditions in the overall narrative about esotericism from Evola's end.
> Whereas Guenon and the rest of the Traditionalist school are specific that
> initiation is available and regular in the Abrahamic traditions (in
> particular Islam via Sufism) Evola is somewhat ambivalent about it.
>
> On a related strain. I was approached by this publisher
> http://www.primordialtraditions.com/ in April for a translation of a Babi
> work I have been on and off translating for some years from Arabic into
> English (i.e. Seven Worlds and Sevenfold Metaphysical Subtleties by
> Subh-i-Azal). Contracts were signed and everything was kept business-like
> and above board until late May when the publisher suddenly out of the blue
> professed a romantic interest in me in facebook mail. When I rebuffed the
> publisher, all heck broke loose and the publisher unilaterally claimed to
> rescind the contract because I would not reciprocate the gesture. I had a
> lawyer look at the exchange who said this constituted sexual harassment. I
> have never met this person in real life so I don't know how they formed an
> impression like that. Very unprofessional behaviour and very bizarre. In the
> lead up to the facebook blow-up I found out that the publisher had a
> long-standing romantic as well as business involvement with Troy Southgate,
> who is a leading New Right (and outright Neo-Fascist) political figure in
> the UK. After the "terrorist incident" in Norway, through the grapevine, it
> turns out that the publisher even had some rather dubious links to Breivik
> himself via the website anus.com.
>
> N.W. Azal
>
> On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 9:40 PM, Amy Hale <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks, Jon, this is very interesting. I would agree with you that we
>> especially need to be careful and clinical with our use of terms like
>> Nazi. Fascist and Nazi are not equivalent terms, although the latter
>> suggests the former. There are certainly people, like Flowers, who
>> have expressed an interest in Nazi aesthetics, history and uses of
>> power, but this does not necessarily mean that he is advocating the
>> same direction or tactics. I'm not saying he isn't either, but I do
>> believe that to make these assessments that we should try to be
>> precise about what we mean by these terms. And I would disagree that
>> De Benoist is not coming from a fascist (with a small f) perspective.
>> I think he is, but not a Nationalist Socialist one.
>>
>> As far as Radical Traditionalism is concerned, I think this term is a
>> bit tricky too, and it too has some classically fascist features.
>> From what I have been able to discern, John Michell actually coined
>> the term, but it was adopted within the last decade to market Evola
>> inspired folkish materials such as Tyr. This may not be correct, and
>> if anyone else has a clearer picture of how this term has developed in
>> distinction to Traditionalism, I would be interested in that
>> information.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Amy
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 1:10 PM, Sharp Jon Mr (LTS) <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>> > I think this may constitute a de-lurking as a previous email put it
>> > although only having joined the board a short time ago it's more of an
>> > introduction than a peering out from the shadows :)
>> >
>> > I would not describe myself as fully aligned with the views of Alain de
>> > Benoist as he presents himself now nor would I agree with all that he
>> > produced since founding the GRECE group in the late sixties. That said, I
>> > suspect my position has at least as much in common with the New Right as it
>> > does with Left discourses around some of the key themes de Benoist explores.
>> >
>> > In that context, my own view would be that support for the New Right, as
>> > constructed within de Benoist's manifesto falls a long way short of being
>> > pro-Fascist and even further from being evidence that one is an advocate of
>> > National-Socialism. Moreover, I'm not sure (would have to dig out my copy
>> > and re-read) that Flowers' support is unequivocal. For instance, de
>> > Benoist's preference for a pseudo-imperium within which diverse local
>> > identity groups subsist would be at odds with the neo-tribal perspective
>> > taken by Flowers.
>> >
>> > I would absolutely agree with you though that the term 'fascist' has
>> > become intensely problematic, both in terms of the somewhat nebulous range
>> > of positions about which it is deployed as a descriptor and due to its dual
>> > function as a ideological label and a tool for seeking to negatively frame
>> > views other than one's own. In this respect it strikes me as very similar to
>> > the label 'Stalinist', thrown about with gay abandon by far too many who are
>> > opposed to Leftism and used to describe a plethora of political positions
>> > and actions.
>> >
>> > This may seem overly pedantic to some, but I would argue that it is
>> > quite reasonable to describe Flowers as a Radical Traditionalist, a Folkish
>> > Tribalist or a supporter of the New Right (where that is understood as a
>> > generic descriptor for a very broad movement rather than a particular strand
>> > thereof). I would still take the view that none of those associations
>> > necessarily indicate fascism or national-socialism.
>> >
>> > The reason I regard the distinction as useful is that once an idea is
>> > tagged as 'fascist' or even worse 'Nazi' it precludes it from being a valid,
>> > potentially useful or worthy notion. As a result any number of potentially
>> > interesting cultural, philosophical, ideological and (to get back on track
>> > with the JISC list title) magical perspectives may be ignored or worse.
>> >
>> > bw
>> > Jon Sharp
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ________________________________________
>> > From: Society for The Academic Study of Magic
>> > [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Amy Hale
>> > [[log in to unmask]]
>> > Sent: 16 August 2011 20:02
>> > To: [log in to unmask]
>> > Subject: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] Fw: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] CFP:
>> > Extremism, Nationalism and Transgression
>> >
>> > Jon, Flowers is very clear in his preface for an edition of Alain de
>> > Benoist's "Manifesto for a European Renaissance" that he is in support
>> > of the aims of the New Right and would like to promote them in an
>> > American context, although he admits it might present difficulty. He
>> > is also pretty clear about his views in recent interviews that he has
>> > given and also in the ways in which he perceives "Indo European
>> > Studies" and its role in cultural revitalization.
>> >
>> > Now of course, members of and proponents of the New Right do not
>> > generally self identify as "fascist", even though many academics,
>> > including myself and Roger Griffin, both believe that the legacy of
>> > thought and program is clear. There is a distinction, though, between
>> > neo fascism, crypto fascism and what we call Historical Fascism
>> > (meaning Italian Fascism and Nazism during the interwar and WW2
>> > period). You are right that the terminology is tricky.
>> >
>> > Best,
>> > Amy
>> >
>> > Amy Hale
>> > Department of Humanities
>> > St. Petersburg College
>> >
>> > On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 11:37 AM, Sharp Jon Mr (LTS)
>> > <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> >> 'I think you're being too kind - with Stephen Flowers and Michael
>> >> Aquino in
>> >> leadership positions, the Setian movement sure had at least a passing
>> >> link
>> >> to the Nazis (old school NSDAP types).'
>> >>
>> >> I think there is a danger of reaching a little too quickly for the
>> >> fascist/
>> >> national-socialist tag at times. There is plenty of material around
>> >> (mainly
>> >> online) that suggessts a fascist/ national-socialist angle to the views
>> >> of Stephen Flowers/ Edred Thorsson. However, I haven't read anything
>> >> by
>> >> Flowers/ Thorsson himself that suggests such a label would be deserved.
>> >>
>> >> bw
>> >> Jon Sharp
>> >>
>> >> ________________________________
>> >> From: Society for The Academic Study of Magic
>> >> [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Samuel Wagar
>> >> [[log in to unmask]]
>> >> Sent: 16 August 2011 16:50
>> >> To: [log in to unmask]
>> >> Subject: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] Fw: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] CFP:
>> >> Extremism, Nationalism and Transgression
>> >>
>> >>> Political religion
>> >>
>> >>> It's good to see that there are people on the list plugged into the
>> >>> issues
>> >>> without overblowing it too much.
>> >>
>> >> Most of our local Northern Mysteries folk are more conservative than I
>> >> am,
>> >> some tend toward the folkish end a bit much for me, but generally they
>> >> try
>> >> to keep the fascists out of their organizations. There's only one or
>> >> two
>> >> racist Asatruar I know, and they aren't political fascists.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> "The Companions of Seth" ....
>> >>> previous Setian groups have been v ambiguous on these issues
>> >>
>> >> I think you're being too kind - with Stephen Flowers and Michael Aquino
>> >> in
>> >> leadership positions, the Setian movement sure had at least a passing
>> >> link
>> >> to the Nazis (old school NSDAP types). My friend ByThor in Alberta is
>> >> also
>> >> libertarian left and his OTO group some years ago had some interest in
>> >> the
>> >> German occultist currents that fed into NSDAP (as well as other
>> >> things), so
>> >> it's not completely contaminated.
>> >>
>> >> The anthology might be interesting. Certainly worthwhile.
>> >>
>> >> Blessed Be, 93,
>> >>
>> >> Sam
>
>
|
