JiscMail Logo
Email discussion lists for the UK Education and Research communities

Help for ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC Archives


ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC Archives

ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC Archives


ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC@JISCMAIL.AC.UK


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC Home

ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC Home

ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC  August 2011

ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC August 2011

Options

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password

Subject:

Re: the pitfalls of language, was Matriarchy

From:

kaostar <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Society for The Academic Study of Magic <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 24 Aug 2011 23:36:02 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (218 lines)

lovely, i'm reminded of a magical issue with regard to language and
(mis)translation, and the blind alleys it coud lead us down:

no citation i'm afraid, but in *one of her books* Dion Fortune discussed a
fragmentary ritual she was researching and reconstructing, with the deity
under address being T'Gatu

(which sounds decidedly Lovecraftian to there ears, it has a guttural, perhaps
Polynesian ring to it?)

it was only after considerable delving into sources and exhasutively failing
to find a deity in any cultures' pantheon by that or a simialr name, that she
accidentally discovered it was a piece of neoMasonic shorthand for The Great
Architect of The Universe

which gives it a decidely different flavour to the rite

Dave E (wondering what would actually happen in an attempt to evoke anything
called T'Gatu)








---------- Original Message -----------
From: Kathryn Evans <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 15:22:32 -0700
Subject: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] Matriarchy

> Very reassuring of my initial positive response to Paolo's work, 
> Sabina, thank you.
> 
> Many Blessings, both Pagan & Christian!
> 
> Kathryn
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Magliocco, Sabina" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 2:43 PM
> Subject: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] Matriarchy
> 
> Thanks, Kathryn, for sending this along.
> 
> Unfortunately I must intervene lest readers get a false impression 
> of the subject matter and approach of these scholars.
> 
> Li Vigni's paper is entitled "The iconography of the witch between 
> popular imagery and social reality."  She contrasts the iconography 
> of the witch from popular materials, with its juxtaposition of 
> beautiful enchantresses and evil hags, with the social reality of 
> the witch trials, in which the victims are altogether ordinary and 
> live among humans -- in fact, are easily confused with ordinary 
> individuals.  Nowhere does she argue that witchcraft is a reality.
> 
> Portone's paper is entitled "In search of the origins of a modern 
> myth: from the "Games of the Lady" to the Satanic sabbat."  "Il 
> Giuoco" refers not to any joker, but to the legends (note: *not* 
> myths!) of the Games of Herodias, according to which certain women 
> would travel in spirit during the night to meet with a company of 
> women led by a supernatural female presence, who went by various 
> names, but whose persona was rooted in folklore about pre-Christian 
> goddesses and supernatural figures.  English-readers can look up the 
> work of Carlo Ginzburg, as well as my various publications on this 
> theme.  Portone argues, as so many have before him, that the 
> mythology of the witches' sabbat draws heavily from these earlier 
> legends -- in other words, the legends of the Game of Herodias and 
> the night flights eventually gave rise to a new mythos of the ,
>  diabolocal withces' sabbat.  Again, nothing in here about academics 
> being the equivalent to witches.
> 
> I'm afraid these misunderstandings can result when computer aids are 
> used to arrive at translations -- reminds me of the old joke about 
> the translation machine which translated "The spirit is willing, but 
> the flesh is weak" to "The booze is terrific, but the meat is terrible!"
> 
> Best,
> Sabina
> 
> Sabina Magliocco
> Professor
> Department of Anthropology
> California State University - Northridge
> [log in to unmask]
> ________________________________________
> From: Society for The Academic Study of Magic 
> [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Kathryn Evans 
> [[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 2:19 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] Matriarchy
> 
> Colleagues,
> 
> I requested the full Abstract of the Conference on "Fairies: mother, 
> lover, witch" that Davide Ermacora offered in Italian. Here are the 
> abstracts of two papers that will be presented there. The first, it 
> seems to me, is attempting to convince readers of the reality of 
> witches among us, but more importantly of the necessity of 
> eradicating them. The second, if I've been able to decipher enough 
> of the Italian, seems to conclude that "where this will lead, if she 
> seeks to illuminate the passage of the door to the birth of a new 
> mythology, the fruit of this syncretic operation by the inquisitors 
> is to demononize amongst the scholarly and folkloric traditions, is 
> by responding to the question of whether il Gioco (the Joker) in 
> reality is understood by the age-old name of witches' Sabbath." . . 
> . So is Paolo in effect insinuating that scholars whose work engages 
> with folklore are witches or demons in the Academy?
> 
> Amy, help me out here---is this the kind of material that elicited 
> the ASE Symposium?
> 
> Sabina, or anyone else, what's your take on these abstracts?
> 
> Ida Li Vigni, [WINDOWS-1252?]L’iconografia della strega tra immaginario
popolare e 
> realtà sociale
> 
> Parlando di streghe nasce spontaneo chiedersi quali siano i loro 
> volti, che segni esteriori le contraddistinguano, chi siano 
> veramente. In questo caso il divario fra immaginario collettivo e 
> realtà sociale si fa più netto, rivelando come [WINDOWS-1252?]l’immagine della 
> strega sia una maschera, uno stereotipo culturale (colto o 
> folklorico poco importa viste le coincidenze) che viene incollato 
> alle povere accusate.
> 
> Se guardiamo ai manuali e a buona parte [WINDOWS-1252?]dell’iconografia
coeva e le 
> affianchiamo alle raffigurazioni popolari trasmesseci dalla cultura 
> orale notiamo come [WINDOWS-1252?]l’identikit della strega ruoti attorno a due 
> stereotipi dalla scoperta simbologia e quasi sempre appaiati, a 
> sottolineare la natura duplice e ingannevole della bellezza 
> femminile: la fata e la strega, ovvero la fanciulla dalle forme 
> procaci e dallo sguardo tentatore e la vecchia megera, con il volto 
> solcato da
> 
> rughe e il corpo aggrinzito. Sono i clichè cui si rifanno i 
> letterati e i pittori, dalle prime raffigurazioni del sabba alle 
> interpretazioni di età romantica, per altro ben radicati 
> [WINDOWS-1252?]nell’immaginario collettivo che vede sia nella
giovinezza-bellezza 
> che nella vecchiaia-bruttezza i segni del Maligno.
> 
> Diverse le immagini che emergono dalla realtà processuale e da 
> alcuni manuali inquisitoriali e che ci testimoniano [WINDOWS-1252?]l’assoluta 
> normalità delle protagoniste del dramma: lungi [WINDOWS-1252?]dall’esibire
nudità 
> più o meno voluttuose o repellenti e di essere colte in 
> atteggiamenti lascivi, le streghe indossano i costumi del tempo e si 
> muovono in scenari di vita quotidiana, anche quando partono per il 
> Sabba a cavallo di una scopa o di animali domestici o partecipano al 
> Sabba. Sono, insomma, colte in atteggiamenti assolutamente 
> quotidiani e apparentemente innocui, danzano, banchettano, se non 
> fosse che accanto a loro compaiono i demoni [WINDOWS-1252?](anch’essi in abiti 
> borghesi, a volte da gentiluomini, ma con caratteri animali). Il 
> messaggio è chiaro, così come viene perfettamente colto
[WINDOWS-1252?]l’habitat 
> nel quale proliferano le streghe: le streghe sono fra noi, si 
> confondono con noi. Nessuno è al sicuro, sembrano dire queste 
> incisioni, e quindi è necessario vegliare, osservare, denunciare.
> 
> Paolo Portone, [WINDOWS-1252?]All’origine di un mito moderno. Dal
[WINDOWS-1252?]‘gioco della 
> [WINDOWS-1252?]Signora’ al sabba di Satana
> 
> [WINDOWS-1252?]C’è stato un tempo in cui i nostri avi credevano in creature 
> femminili benefiche che si aggiravano di notte per villaggi e 
> castelli portando doni alle famiglie generose e allietando con canti 
> e balli i fortunati a cui si rivelavano. Per lunghi secoli nel 
> folklore dei popoli cosiddetti civilizzati si sono conservate le 
> vestigia di ancestrali divinità muliebri apportatrici di fertilità e 
> donatrici di segreti naturali, figure in cui si continuava a 
> declinare un sovrannaturale non rigidamente abramitico ed esclusivo. 
> Tracce di antichissimi riti femminili collegati al culto di Diana 
> (di Perchta o di Holda in ambito germanico) sono presenti nella 
> documentazione ecclesiastica altomedievale, testimonianze della 
> straordinaria longevità di istituti culturali sopravvissuti a secoli 
> di evangelizzazione e di conversioni forzate. Ancora agli albori 
> [WINDOWS-1252?]dell’età moderna non è difficile imbattersi, tra le pieghe di
una 
> società devota e intenta a costruire cattedrali, nelle molteplici 
> manifestazioni di una religiosità eterodossa in cui la donna 
> continua ad occupare un posto rilevante,come nella tradizione della 
> Signora del Gioco, ultimo barlume di un sistema di credenze coerente 
> e autonomo preesistente alla cristianizzazione. A partire dal 
> Quattrocento, di questo universo culturale e del numinoso ad esso 
> sotteso, conservatosi entro le ampie maglie della societas 
> christiana medievale, resterà ben poco sotto [WINDOWS-1252?]l’urto del
drammatico 
> processo di acculturazione ai valori della modernità di cui la 
> caccia alle streghe rappresentò un significativo epifenomeno. Sulla 
> scorta della documentazione storica e delle testimonianze 
> folkloriche di cui oggi disponiamo, si cercherà di illuminare il 
> passaggio che portò alla nascita di una nuova mitologia, frutto 
> della sincresi operata da inquisitori e demonologi tra tradizione 
> colta e folklorica, e di rispondere all
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Caroline Tully<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> To: 
> [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 3:53 AM
> Subject: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] Matriarchy
> 
> Oh Chas,
> 
> I see you were actually blogging about the [new definitions of] 
> matriarchies thing:
> 
> http://blog.chasclifton.com/?p=3098
> 
> ~Caroline.
------- End of Original Message -------

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

JiscMail Tools


RSS Feeds and Sharing


Advanced Options


Archives

January 2024
December 2023
October 2023
September 2023
August 2023
May 2023
April 2023
October 2022
September 2022
August 2022
July 2022
June 2022
May 2022
April 2022
March 2022
February 2022
January 2022
December 2021
November 2021
October 2021
September 2021
August 2021
July 2021
June 2021
May 2021
April 2021
March 2021
February 2021
January 2021
December 2020
November 2020
October 2020
August 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
January 2020
November 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
November 2005


JiscMail is a Jisc service.

View our service policies at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ and Jisc's privacy policy at https://www.jisc.ac.uk/website/privacy-notice

For help and support help@jisc.ac.uk

Secured by F-Secure Anti-Virus CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager