I think people tend to overanalyse all this a bit. Police insensitivity probably did inflame the initial outburst. Much of what followed on from that was probably the result of youth street gangs organising themselves through blackberry messenger, recognising that the shops were not well protected giving them the opportunity to loot. The initial police action was not their motivation. The family of the man that the police shot have explicitly distanced themselves from all the violence. As Simon Hughes, the mp for Bermondsey said, most of this is caused by pockets of youths (about 100 or so strong in many of the affected areas)' latching themselves onto something that they think is exciting (smashing things and stealing phones), because they could, for a time, get away with it (there were some interviews with some looters on the bbc website yesterday - they 'thought' the whole thing was fun). Well, most of them probably won't ultimately get away with it, as they're being rounded up and prosecuted. But, having said all this, it does draw some focus on the possible implications of the government's massive planned spending cuts, and they're initial plans to ramrod through major state reform, such as that relating to the NHS, as Patrick points out in his blogpost. I suppose that, in all walks of life, if nobody thinks anyone else is listening, you might as well get on with doing whatever you like. 



On 10 Aug 2011, at 13:14, "Kenneth Thompson" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> So sad to see all this. 
> 
> It maybe a herd effect- but something created the herds (in this case rioters and police). It was a plane crash in Lord of the Flies. Hard to know what it was in the UK from a distance. Violence doesn't necessarily flow from the creation of a herd, though it can- an act of violence can be a particularly effective spark. Hard right explanations, like I heard on TV in the US this AM, that its all just criminality  don't explain why it happened now and why so many people- at this moment- have decided to participate. Presumably there is always criminality but its presence explains nothing about why now and why so many have joined in. The lefts focus on disaffection does a better job of why now and perhaps who- at least the degree of disaffection and who experiences it is historically contingent- but it doesn't explain the emergence and spread of the violence.  That remains a bit of a  mystery, tied up in what happens to people who have lost themselves in a mob, though its notable that a contested act of violence by the police seems to have ignited the whole ordeal.  No doubt there have been some instigators (both mob and police and others) who previously have been biding their time and who now have taken advantage of the moment to pour gas on this fire.  
> Bottom line- there are historically contingent reasons that there were herds in place in England- ignoring these will only be at the UKs peril. The reasons the violence has been so massive and so widespread are lost in that herd. But there are no doubt some who did their best to spread fire or bust heads on both sides of the conflagration. Leaders seeking peace and a just resolution will need to keep focused on the historical contingencies of this moment that created the herds, unleashed their potential for violence and then propagated it.    
> 
> Ken
> 
> Ken
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Oliver,AJ" <[log in to unmask]>
> Sender: Anglo-American Health Policy Network <[log in to unmask]>
> Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 11:03:57 
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Reply-to: "Oliver,AJ" <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: May be of interest
> 
> The following blog (linked below) by Patrick Dunleavy, may be of interest. Patrick comments on the riots, and touches on the NHS. Although I live in quite close proximity to some of the rioting, I would have no idea how to prevent it. It wasn't as far as I can see a political or interest group protest at all, not that Patrick is suggesting it was (is). Unlike with the poll tax riots, for example, there is virtually no broader public support for what has happened. But I think Patrick's points apply to most countries at all times. These type of herd reactions take many forms. This time, destruction by youths (not all of them by any means disaffected, by all accounts). There was similar if far lesser behaviour purported to be in reaction to the student fee increases a few months back. Perhaps it's a lord of the rings effect. 
> 
> 
> http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/2011/08/10/vulnerability-of-the-british-state/#more-13374
> 
> 
> 
> Please access the attached hyperlink for an important electronic communications disclaimer: http://lse.ac.uk/emailDisclaimer

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