I'm very aware of the importance of play in all art, Andrew, what sets my
teeth on edge is the mechanical formulaic ritualised
processed-f-ing-cheese-standardisation-Ronald Macdonald on every
corner-boredom of making it a prescriptive practice.
Once, the avant-garde represented an upending of conventions, a departure
from homogeneity. Now it's the stuff of creative writing classes. It's
become just as boring as the mainstream it affects to despise. Yes, there
are exceptions to that, and the situation in other languages can be
different, outside the dreadful pointless plaything of a pampered 'middle'
class that Anglophone poetry largely is, but the general effect is like
watching a cultural waste production system.
On 21 July 2011 06:32, andrew burke <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> David - yes and no. I find games of poetry often lead to a 'true' poem - as
> the old folk-poet Frost once said, A poem begins in delight and ends in
> wisdom. I often start with the rules and set about breaking them, but it
> seems to give the best of my poems some cohesion (for all my foot-tapping
> and finger-snapping <g>). I've written a worthwhile villanelle and a
> pantoum
> but never a sestina - too dull with words or too complex with the
> patchwork.
>
> Just chatting ...
>
> Andrew
>
> On 21 July 2011 13:11, David Bircumshaw <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > There are of course alternative views of MacLow and diastics - for
> example
> > http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/diastic+poetry - I quite like the phrase
> > 'literary sudoku' - but really the end of all this is the land of
> Gnoetry.
> > I
> > find it quite interesting that elements in bourgeois US 'poetry culture'
> is
> > so keen of wiping out the 'creative', Dryden's 'peaceful province in
> > acrostic land' has reverberations that arch twister never intended; it's
> > peculiar too how the questioning of bourgeois subjectivity has ended up
> > becoming the friend of mechanised culture, although the long
> appropriation
> > of the avant-garde by money makes it not too surprising. You start off
> with
> > Rimbaud and end up with Warhol. Fear not managers, the poets are your
> > friends. It's like a kind of huge cultural inhume-you-ment.
> >
> > On 21 July 2011 04:38, andrew burke <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> > > What fun! Thanks, Barry, for the diastic - a form I've never tried.
> (And
> > > clever Doug for spotting it!) I'll have a go when I've stopped with the
> > > domestics - who ever said retirement was bliss! (Do writers ever
> retire?)
> > > Andrew
> > >
> > > On 21 July 2011 03:03, Barry Alpert <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Thanks, Doug. Actually a diastic, a form invented by Jackson MacLow,
> > > which
> > > > I often try to weld to the sonnet. Very difficult to keep in mind
> the
> > > > positions of the letters within words during a live talk or during a
> > > film,
> > > > but here I had my source interview on the computer screen as I chose
> > > > language units.
> > > >
> > > > Barry
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, 20 Jul 2011 12:19:47 -0600, Douglas Barbour <
> > > > [log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >Neatly done, & sneaky indented acrostic, Barry.
> > > > >
> > > > >Doug
> > > > >On 2011-07-20, at 12:08 PM, Barry Alpert wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> NAM JUNE PAIK DAY
> > > > >
> > > > >Douglas Barbour
> > > > >[log in to unmask]
> > > > >
> > > > >http://www.ualberta.ca/~dbarbour/
> > > > >http://eclecticruckus.wordpress.com/
> > > > >
> > > > >Latest books:
> > > > >Continuations (with Sheila E Murphy)
> > > > >http://www.uap.ualberta.ca/UAP.asp?LID=41&bookID=664
> > > > >Wednesdays'
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://abovegroundpress.blogspot.com/2008/03/new-from-aboveground-press_10.html
> > > > >
> > > > >It is natural to speak of your own weaknesses so winsomely they will
> > > seem
> > > > strengths, as if everyone else is inadequate if they do not have your
> > > > inadequacies.
> > > > >
> > > > > William H. Gass
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Andrew
> > > http://hispirits.blogspot.com/
> > > 'Mother Waits for Father Late' republished available at
> > > http://www.picaropress.com/
> > > http://www.qlrs.com/poem.asp?id=766
> > > http://frankshome.org/AndrewBurke.html
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > David Joseph Bircumshaw
> > Website and A Chide's Alphabet
> > http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk
> > The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
> > Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/david.bircumshaw
> > twitter: http://twitter.com/bucketshave
> > blog: http://groggydays.blogspot.com/
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Andrew
> http://hispirits.blogspot.com/
> 'Mother Waits for Father Late' republished available at
> http://www.picaropress.com/
> http://www.qlrs.com/poem.asp?id=766
> http://frankshome.org/AndrewBurke.html
>
--
David Joseph Bircumshaw
Website and A Chide's Alphabet
http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk
The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/david.bircumshaw
twitter: http://twitter.com/bucketshave
blog: http://groggydays.blogspot.com/
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