Good morning all
Well you might expect this reply from a librarian but here goes anyhow!
1) I for one think we need different types of stores for different purposes and a 'standards compliant' repository such as those supplied by the big guys e.g.eprints, Dspace, Fedora etc are crucial to help build an infrastructure that looks after core quality digital content that you do want stored and made accessible longer term. Don't get me wrong I love all this explosion of opportunity that the web brings us to be more creative, share and reuse but as we discussed at the recent ORIOLE project workshop having the stuff there doesn't mean that people will engage with it in an 'open' way. BUT if you do want to make sure you can still see your digital content beyond 5 years then we need robust systems and services to support it! Fedora is a great place to start as at least it has attempted to build and implement digital preservation approaches that support this aspiration and we still have a long way to go before we crack it all I am sure...but best start now and get better eh?
2)If we want to build smart services that provide excellent responsive relevant results to all this digital stuff then we need metadata (I can hear the groans from here!) I am not talking lots of hand applied I am taking structured content with nice friendly interfaces and implicitly built in to formats in standardised ways that us mere humans needn't know are there- our digital videocams and phones already have a lot of this stuff in there we just don't use it strategically enough.
No metadata no find. We talking metadata about processes to not just stuff. Metadata that does not have to be applied. Problem with metadata is that we need lovely interfaces and tools for people that manage it all behind the scenes so they don't have to be bored to death with it all but techies and digital anthropologists and digital archivists can scratch their heads and worry about how to manage it to sustain brilliant ways forward.
3)Managing metadata for deposit is also a boring subject but really we are talking strategic paralysis and short sightedness here. If funding bodies worked with service providers either commercial or open source to define requirements and standardise all this could disappear. I am afraid the "chicken pox syndrome" of repository rashes is just as much down to unsustainable strategy at political and economic level. Don't blame the messenger folks. We sooo need to sort these things out in order to work smarter and faster to meet developments and sustainable strategies. Unfortunately for many we are still living in a transitional world between analogue and digital and rather then thinking creatively about the possibilities we tend to cling to the devil we know and take all the baggage with us. Have a good day all :-)
Non Scantlebury
Who thinks of herself as a librarian even now but is called something else that she can never remember.
The Open University
-----Original Message-----
From: OER-DISCUSS automatic digest system [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 21 June 2011 00:03
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: OER-DISCUSS Digest - 17 Jun 2011 to 20 Jun 2011 (#2011-96)
There are 10 messages totaling 1040 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. LR questions (2)
2. LR RSS harvesting (7)
3. Google plus one button
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 11:09:09 +0100
From: Fred Riley <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: LR questions
Pat, some of your Qs are ambiguous, IMO, but here goes anyway:
> Here are some starters for ten
>
> 1) Do you still need a repository - can you build what you need around
> the LR and some files on a website?
The word "repository" is just sooooooooo noughties, my dear. The concept of repository is still alive in the area of 'scholarly works' where it makes sense as papers, theses and datasets are stored on one or more particular servers and need to be downloaded for analysis and whatnot, but in learning resources it's sometimes difficult to talk of a discrete resource in a discrete place. A YouTube video, say - if you put the link to that into your 'repository', you're not storing the video itself. On a larger sense, is OAIster a 'repository'? IMO no.
I'm not sure what phrase should be used, but I do think that 'repository' has had its day in an inter-connected interoperable web. We ought maybe to be thinking in terms of distributed databases of teaching and learning resources.
For all that preamble, my answer would be: yes, we still need to build our own 'resource databases' (or whatever) for local usage and customisation. And also not to be too reliant on external services.
> 2) Where can you think of services providing links to elearning
> content being deployed? What tools would you like?
Locally and online. Tools: aggregators with knobs on. That is, a teacher or student being able to collate online and local resources into a meaningful whole, with pedagogical 'glue'. OER Glue is a good starter in this respect.
> 3) What paradata and metadata would you find useful (for example no
> geodata at the moment is stored)?
Usage paradata. IMO reviews and star ratings are, well, overrated, for all sorts of reasons. Some pedagogical metadata, though not as OTT as the UK LOM Core goes. As ever, the main problem is who's going to enter the metadata, but that's been debated ad nauseam over years without any resolution.
> 4) How would you like to add your resources to the learning registry?
Easily! Personally I'd want the registry to harvest feeds that I provide - I'm sick of redepositing the same packages in multiple repositories. Write once, read many times.
Cheers
Fred
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 11:40:45 +0100
From: Pat Lockley <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: LR questions
> Pat, some of your Qs are ambiguous, IMO, but here goes anyway:
Sometimes, on a discussion list, a little ambiguity goes a long way.
>
>> Here are some starters for ten
>>
>> 1) Do you still need a repository - can you build what you need
>> around the LR and some files on a website?
>
> The word "repository" is just sooooooooo noughties, my dear. The concept of repository is still alive in the area of 'scholarly works'
> where it makes sense as papers, theses and datasets are stored on one
> or more particular servers and need to be downloaded for analysis
Well yes, but if something else is providing you with a faster architecture, then file on website is the only prerequisite. You don't need a repository service any more if there is a bigger central service to do it for you..
>> 2) Where can you think of services providing links to elearning
>> content being deployed? What tools would you like?
>
> Locally and online. Tools: aggregators with knobs on. That is, a
> teacher or student being able to collate online and local resources into a meaningful whole, with pedagogical 'glue'. OER Glue is a good starter in this respect.
The LR is an aggregator, not sure as to it's status in terms of beknobbledness (why does my spell checker think that's not a word, it's perfectly cromulant).
The LR has a slicing function -
http://lrdev04.learningregistry.org/slices?any_tags=nursing - to bring back the document IDs matching a word. This then needs a json decode (php function) and then one more request to get links back for each ID returned.
>> 4) How would you like to add your resources to the learning registry?
>
> Easily! Personally I'd want the registry to harvest feeds that I
> provide - I'm sick of redepositing the same packages in multiple repositories. Write once, read many times.
Am going to reply to this in another email
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 11:43:30 +0100
From: Pat Lockley <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: LR RSS harvesting
Hi all,
From 1 brief convo at the plugfest, it seems the LR doesn't want to poll your feeds as they are worried about slowing servers down with a request.
Xpert takes feeds once a day (and it never occurred to me to care about your servers tbh).
So the question :-
Is anyone worried about a site harvesting their RSS feed once a day?
Pat
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 12:28:25 +0100
From: "A.Comas-Quinn" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: LR RSS harvesting
I'm told we are not worried, Pat.
Anna
________________________________________
From: Pat Lockley [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 20 June 2011 11:43
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: LR RSS harvesting
Hi all,
From 1 brief convo at the plugfest, it seems the LR doesn't want to poll your feeds as they are worried about slowing servers down with a request.
Xpert takes feeds once a day (and it never occurred to me to care about your servers tbh).
So the question :-
Is anyone worried about a site harvesting their RSS feed once a day?
Pat
--
The Open University is incorporated by Royal Charter (RC 000391), an exempt charity in England & Wales and a charity registered in Scotland (SC 038302).
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 08:17:07 -0400
From: Daniel Rehak <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: LR RSS harvesting
We've been told that some folk have tried to harvest the entire contents
from Connexions as frequently as every minute. Kathi is on the list and
can provide more details
We (LR) do have a harvest utility, and someone can set it up to harvest whatever, whenever. We (LR) aren't going to use it like that, but you else can. So if the target complains about server overload, they will complain to you.
- Dan
On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 06:43, Pat Lockley
<[log in to unmask]>wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> From 1 brief convo at the plugfest, it seems the LR doesn't want to
> poll your feeds as they are worried about slowing servers down with a
> request.
>
> Xpert takes feeds once a day (and it never occurred to me to care
> about your servers tbh).
>
> So the question :-
>
> Is anyone worried about a site harvesting their RSS feed once a day?
>
> Pat
>
--
Daniel R. Rehak, Ph.D.
ADL Technical Advisor
Skype: drrehak
Email: [log in to unmask]
[log in to unmask]
Twitter: @danielrehak
Web: learningregistry.org
adlnet.gov
lsal.org
Google Voice: +1 412 301 3040
Tel: +1 412 931 7317
Work: +1 412 931 7319
Mob: +1 412 805 7683
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 13:21:41 +0100
From: Pat Lockley <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: LR RSS harvesting
Hello,
Wasn't an argument over the threat of harvesting - more that if people are happy then why not. A malicious harvester is just DOS in any other form, and if the server can't take that then it's got bigger problems.
If the LR took RSS Feed as is, it'd get 35,000 UKOER items in about an hour. Just seems a really quick win.
Pat
On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 1:17 PM, Daniel Rehak <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> We've been told that some folk have tried to harvest the entire
> contents from Connexions as frequently as every minute. Kathi is on
> the list and can provide more details
>
> We (LR) do have a harvest utility, and someone can set it up to
> harvest whatever, whenever. We (LR) aren't going to use it like that,
> but you else can. So if the target complains about server overload,
> they will complain to you.
>
> - Dan
>
> On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 06:43, Pat Lockley
> <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> From 1 brief convo at the plugfest, it seems the LR doesn't want to
>> poll your feeds as they are worried about slowing servers down with a
>> request.
>>
>> Xpert takes feeds once a day (and it never occurred to me to care
>> about your servers tbh).
>>
>> So the question :-
>>
>> Is anyone worried about a site harvesting their RSS feed once a day?
>>
>> Pat
>
>
>
> --
> Daniel R. Rehak, Ph.D.
>
> ADL Technical Advisor
> Skype: drrehak
> Email: [log in to unmask]
> [log in to unmask]
> Twitter: @danielrehak
> Web: learningregistry.org
> adlnet.gov
> lsal.org
> Google Voice: +1 412 301 3040
> Tel: +1 412 931 7317
> Work: +1 412 931 7319
> Mob: +1 412 805 7683
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 08:54:45 -0400
From: Daniel Rehak <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: LR RSS harvesting
Then someone should just grab the feeds and put them in. LR is meant to be decentralized -- anyone can do it, and it doesn't require any action or permission from LR (well maybe a little bit of help now since we're still in early days).
- Dan
On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 08:21, Pat Lockley
<[log in to unmask]>wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Wasn't an argument over the threat of harvesting - more that if people
> are happy then why not. A malicious harvester is just DOS in any other
> form, and if the server can't take that then it's got bigger problems.
>
> If the LR took RSS Feed as is, it'd get 35,000 UKOER items in about an
> hour. Just seems a really quick win.
>
> Pat
>
> On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 1:17 PM, Daniel Rehak <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> > We've been told that some folk have tried to harvest the entire contents
> > from Connexions as frequently as every minute. Kathi is on the list and
> > can provide more details
> >
> > We (LR) do have a harvest utility, and someone can set it up to
> > harvest whatever, whenever. We (LR) aren't going to use it like
> > that, but you
> else
> > can. So if the target complains about server overload, they will
> complain
> > to you.
> >
> > - Dan
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 06:43, Pat Lockley <
> [log in to unmask]>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> From 1 brief convo at the plugfest, it seems the LR doesn't want to
> >> poll your feeds as they are worried about slowing servers down with
> >> a request.
> >>
> >> Xpert takes feeds once a day (and it never occurred to me to care
> >> about your servers tbh).
> >>
> >> So the question :-
> >>
> >> Is anyone worried about a site harvesting their RSS feed once a day?
> >>
> >> Pat
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Daniel R. Rehak, Ph.D.
> >
> > ADL Technical Advisor
> > Skype: drrehak
> > Email: [log in to unmask]
> > [log in to unmask]
> > Twitter: @danielrehak
> > Web: learningregistry.org
> > adlnet.gov
> > lsal.org
> > Google Voice: +1 412 301 3040
> > Tel: +1 412 931 7317
> > Work: +1 412 931 7319
> > Mob: +1 412 805 7683
> >
>
--
Daniel R. Rehak, Ph.D.
ADL Technical Advisor
Skype: drrehak
Email: [log in to unmask]
[log in to unmask]
Twitter: @danielrehak
Web: learningregistry.org
adlnet.gov
lsal.org
Google Voice: +1 412 301 3040
Tel: +1 412 931 7317
Work: +1 412 931 7319
Mob: +1 412 805 7683
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 13:57:55 +0100
From: Pat Lockley <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: LR RSS harvesting
Yeah, I'm thinking about doing it, but that means learning all the PGP stuff, and i thought it might be quicker if it didn't involve that :)
On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 1:54 PM, Daniel Rehak <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Then someone should just grab the feeds and put them in. LR is meant
> to be decentralized -- anyone can do it, and it doesn't require any
> action or permission from LR (well maybe a little bit of help now
> since we're still in early days).
> - Dan
>
> On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 08:21, Pat Lockley
> <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> Wasn't an argument over the threat of harvesting - more that if
>> people are happy then why not. A malicious harvester is just DOS in
>> any other form, and if the server can't take that then it's got bigger problems.
>>
>> If the LR took RSS Feed as is, it'd get 35,000 UKOER items in about
>> an hour. Just seems a really quick win.
>>
>> Pat
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 1:17 PM, Daniel Rehak
>> <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>> > We've been told that some folk have tried to harvest the entire
>> > contents from Connexions as frequently as every minute. Kathi is
>> > on the list and can provide more details
>> >
>> > We (LR) do have a harvest utility, and someone can set it up to
>> > harvest whatever, whenever. We (LR) aren't going to use it like
>> > that, but you else can. So if the target complains about server
>> > overload, they will complain to you.
>> >
>> > - Dan
>> >
>> > On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 06:43, Pat Lockley
>> > <[log in to unmask]>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hi all,
>> >>
>> >> From 1 brief convo at the plugfest, it seems the LR doesn't want
>> >> to poll your feeds as they are worried about slowing servers down
>> >> with a request.
>> >>
>> >> Xpert takes feeds once a day (and it never occurred to me to care
>> >> about your servers tbh).
>> >>
>> >> So the question :-
>> >>
>> >> Is anyone worried about a site harvesting their RSS feed once a day?
>> >>
>> >> Pat
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Daniel R. Rehak, Ph.D.
>> >
>> > ADL Technical Advisor
>> > Skype: drrehak
>> > Email: [log in to unmask]
>> > [log in to unmask]
>> > Twitter: @danielrehak
>> > Web: learningregistry.org
>> > adlnet.gov
>> > lsal.org
>> > Google Voice: +1 412 301 3040
>> > Tel: +1 412 931 7317
>> > Work: +1 412 931 7319
>> > Mob: +1 412 805 7683
>> >
>
>
>
> --
> Daniel R. Rehak, Ph.D.
>
> ADL Technical Advisor
> Skype: drrehak
> Email: [log in to unmask]
> [log in to unmask]
> Twitter: @danielrehak
> Web: learningregistry.org
> adlnet.gov
> lsal.org
> Google Voice: +1 412 301 3040
> Tel: +1 412 931 7317
> Work: +1 412 931 7319
> Mob: +1 412 805 7683
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 09:23:17 -0400
From: Daniel Rehak <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: LR RSS harvesting
Check out goo.gl/zxiCm
Steve and Jim tried to make the PGP stuff easy
- Dan
On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 08:57, Pat Lockley
<[log in to unmask]>wrote:
> Yeah, I'm thinking about doing it, but that means learning all the PGP
> stuff, and i thought it might be quicker if it didn't involve that :)
>
> On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 1:54 PM, Daniel Rehak <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> > Then someone should just grab the feeds and put them in. LR is
> > meant to
> be
> > decentralized -- anyone can do it, and it doesn't require any action
> > or permission from LR (well maybe a little bit of help now since
> > we're still
> in
> > early days).
> > - Dan
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 08:21, Pat Lockley <
> [log in to unmask]>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Hello,
> >>
> >> Wasn't an argument over the threat of harvesting - more that if
> >> people are happy then why not. A malicious harvester is just DOS in
> >> any other form, and if the server can't take that then it's got bigger problems.
> >>
> >> If the LR took RSS Feed as is, it'd get 35,000 UKOER items in about
> >> an hour. Just seems a really quick win.
> >>
> >> Pat
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 1:17 PM, Daniel Rehak
> >> <[log in to unmask]>
> >> wrote:
> >> > We've been told that some folk have tried to harvest the entire
> contents
> >> > from Connexions as frequently as every minute. Kathi is on the list
> >> > and
> >> > can provide more details
> >> >
> >> > We (LR) do have a harvest utility, and someone can set it up to
> harvest
> >> > whatever, whenever. We (LR) aren't going to use it like that,
> >> > but you else can. So if the target complains about server
> >> > overload, they will complain to you.
> >> >
> >> > - Dan
> >> >
> >> > On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 06:43, Pat Lockley
> >> > <[log in to unmask]>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Hi all,
> >> >>
> >> >> From 1 brief convo at the plugfest, it seems the LR doesn't want
> >> >> to poll your feeds as they are worried about slowing servers
> >> >> down with a request.
> >> >>
> >> >> Xpert takes feeds once a day (and it never occurred to me to
> >> >> care about your servers tbh).
> >> >>
> >> >> So the question :-
> >> >>
> >> >> Is anyone worried about a site harvesting their RSS feed once a day?
> >> >>
> >> >> Pat
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Daniel R. Rehak, Ph.D.
> >> >
> >> > ADL Technical Advisor
> >> > Skype: drrehak
> >> > Email: [log in to unmask]
> >> > [log in to unmask]
> >> > Twitter: @danielrehak
> >> > Web: learningregistry.org
> >> > adlnet.gov
> >> > lsal.org
> >> > Google Voice: +1 412 301 3040
> >> > Tel: +1 412 931 7317
> >> > Work: +1 412 931 7319
> >> > Mob: +1 412 805 7683
> >> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Daniel R. Rehak, Ph.D.
> >
> > ADL Technical Advisor
> > Skype: drrehak
> > Email: [log in to unmask]
> > [log in to unmask]
> > Twitter: @danielrehak
> > Web: learningregistry.org
> > adlnet.gov
> > lsal.org
> > Google Voice: +1 412 301 3040
> > Tel: +1 412 931 7317
> > Work: +1 412 931 7319
> > Mob: +1 412 805 7683
> >
>
--
Daniel R. Rehak, Ph.D.
ADL Technical Advisor
Skype: drrehak
Email: [log in to unmask]
[log in to unmask]
Twitter: @danielrehak
Web: learningregistry.org
adlnet.gov
lsal.org
Google Voice: +1 412 301 3040
Tel: +1 412 931 7317
Work: +1 412 931 7319
Mob: +1 412 805 7683
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 16:53:24 +0100
From: Pat Lockley <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Google plus one button
http://www.mickmel.com/blog/201106/how-to-add-a-google-1-plus-one-button-to-your-site/
Hello all,
Anyone experimented with the above yet?
It's a little death by social media buttons, but this button "improves" your "google ranking".
Pat
------------------------------
End of OER-DISCUSS Digest - 17 Jun 2011 to 20 Jun 2011 (#2011-96)
*****************************************************************
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