I've been a 2ry teacher of English since 1992 - as well has having three African-Caribbean brothers, two AC nephews now in their 20s and countless male cousins.

Watley hits the nail on the head when he says that black boys in British schools give up.
They tell you - directly - that there is no point in trying when everything is stacked against them.
I'm disgusted with this defeatist, self-fulfilling approach to life.
It's the easy way out.

I tell them that if they can't believe in themselves no one else will.
I tell them that "when the going gets tough, the tough get tougher"
I tell them that developing their minds is worthwhile - for their own sense of self - nevermind if it doesn't bring high paying jobs

But, I'm afraid, all they want is the easy money.
They are too concerned with 'looking cool' (peer pressure) than working for something that doesn't have an immediate pay-off.

It's easier for AC girls to work hard at school because the social pressures (and stereotypes) are not the same for girls as they are for boys.
Ditto for Asians/Orientals

The lack of positive black role models doesn't help but the biggest setback to black boys is a negative attitude to learning.

The black boys, from poor families, who DO achieve (and thankfully I see several each year) are those who are strong enough to take the CONSTANT ribbing from their peers (especially their black peers) about 'being white', being a girl' etc., all because they show a determination to achieve academic success despite the odds.

--
Angela Allison, Coventry UK

"I know the one thing we did right,
was the day we started to fight.
Keep your eyes on the prize, Hold on!"

---- Watley George <[log in to unmask]> wrote: 
> Dear All,
> 
> I would like to respond to Nicola Sheridan's e-mail by stating that her writing is reflective of indirectly stating that Black children perform poorly in school because of some inherent weakness of Black people. This is absolutely wrong! 
> 
> I have been a school teacher in the US and the UK and the difference between both countries is that the US had largely moved past the issue of Black people in leadership positions, something the UK has yet to do. Also, the ability of Black children is routinely underassessed, as The Guardian's article Black Children Routinely Marked Down clearly stated. Asian children were not routinely marked down in assessments like Black children, which indicates that teacher prejudice is complex and a factor is such attitudes that Sheridan has expressed. 
> 
> In my UK teaching experience, my ability and performance was unofficially berated (i.e. marked down) for no official reason, even to the point that a reference stated that I was,' unfamiliar with the English education system' with no evidence such as a lesson observation to prove this. If this is how a Black professional with two degrees was treated, what chance did Black students have in that educational environment to succeed based on their genuine (i.e. unbiased) ability. Has Sheridan read the statistics that only 30 headteachers in England are Black men and 0.7% are Black in total, male or female. 
> 
> Disrupted family life for Black people in Britain? I will just focus on Caribbean people, as my knowledge related to this is most relevant. I know this is anecdotal, but if Caribbean migrants to the USA, Canada and Britain are compared, I am sure the migrants to North America have achieved more educationally and professionally than migrants to Britain, including offspring. This discrepancy cannot be due to 'disrupted' family backgrounds, with a lack of stability when the same family structures exist for people of the Caribbean diaspora, regardless of country of destination. There needs to be more research on the differences and similarities between Caribbean people in the three mentioned countries to determine the accuracy of my statements. 
> 
> 'The problem of boys' underachievement seems to be related to male cultures and especially estates where status is not conferred by having a job but via other routes, which are not attained via educational success.' This statement reflects a small minority of Black young people. The majority of Black children have to face hostility in schools towards their abilities, their cultures and the equation of Black with lower intelligence that happens all too often in British schools. If Black children do not see people that look like them in positions of power and influence, they will feel as if they cannot obtain such positions, and will feel alienated in the process. Likewise, Black people being effectively excluded from professional positions, especially in management, creates the impression that Black people do not belong in such jobs. This attitude is bought and sold by all to many in Britain under the guise of 'We'll have to lower our standards to include Black people' or by other means such as promoting friends and those within existing networks, effectively excluding Black people by implication. 
> 
> The ' ... chief determinant of educational achievement is socio-economic class'? This deterministic view is exactly what the problem is all about. More correctly, based on my experience, the chief determinant of educational achievement is the combination of ability with the desire of teachers and the larger educational system to educate ALL children based on their ability and desire to learn REGARDLESS of social class. My father was a lorry driver so that means I should be as well? Try again Sheridan as I will be earning my PhD next year and can't wait to do some research to undermine such deterministic attitudes Sheridan is espousing. I was not isolated, as my working class family and friends mostly earned degrees and are in professions. There again these are US examples, but Britain makes it much tougher for Black people to succeed professionally because a meritocracy does not exist in the UK. This is the problem! Young Black people are not stupid, they see their limited prospects vis-a-vis their White contemporaries and some give up in a game that is rigged against the general success of Black people in Britain. The current almost 50 percent unemployment for Black youth (20% for White youth) combined with like for like unemployment (i.e same qualifications as White contemporaries) double that of Whites and having to apply for twice the jobs. When Britain genuinely enforces Race Relations laws and fosters a genuine spirit of equality and promotion on merit as opposed to affiliation with social networks or more organised social clubs, education will be seen as more valuable by the Black youth on the grim estates that Sheridan mentions. 
> 
> I think Sheridan needs to do some basic research before blaming Black people for lack of educational success in Britain. Let us start by suggesting she read Bernard Coard's How the West Indian Child is kept Educationally Sub-Normal in the English Education System. Afterwards, Sheridan should discover why Black British history is not being taught in British universities, save for so few I could count on one hand and have fingers left over. Afterwards, she should research why Black history is NOT part of Initial Teacher Training or any other QTS training as it currently exists. 
> 
> When Sheridan has done the suggested research, I would like to meet with her to discover her findings and whether or not she still has such deterministic views on the education of Black children in British schools. I invite Dr. Nicola Sheridan to e-mail me at my University of Northampton e-mail address.  
> 
> George Watley
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: The Black and Asian Studies Association on behalf of Nicola Sheldon
> Sent: Mon 27/06/2011 18:58
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: some statistics
>  
> Dear All
>  
> Please allow me to enter this discussion. As a teacher of 16 years' standing, with 6 years experience in a multi-racial FE college and another six in a white working-class college, I would endorse Kathy's view entirely that one needs to put the statistics into context. In my experience, the chief determinant of educational achievement is socio-economic class and the fact is that immigrant communities are usually amongst the poorest in any community means children from them start with a disadvantage in school. This is not to say that youngsters (of all ethnic backgrounds) cannot overcome socio-economic circumstances and achieve great things - but they often need to have 'special' circumstances to help them - a very good school, very supportive parents and perhaps also not too many other siblings. I saw some wonderful achievements by my Asian students - some with very deprived backgrounds, but I have to admit that the majority of students (of both white and BME backgrounds) who consistently did well came from the well-heeled homes. 
>  
> The higher achievements of Indian and Chinese children are not really so puzzling, as  proportionately these children come more from middle-class homes or at least better-off working-class ones. Culture does play a part - Asian parents generally are very aspirational for their children - I have lost count of the students I interviewed with mediocre GCSEs who told me they wanted to be doctors, accountants and lawyers - and some of them managed it. Chinese and Asian communities have very strong family structures and extended families - almost every student from that background will have a relative, even if a remote one, who has succeeded at school and he/she can call on that person for information at the very least, if not actual support of some kind. Children (both white and BME) who come from 'disrupted' family backgrounds, with a lack of stability as well as a lack of money, are bound to be distracted from succeeding in school - they need a lot of support to achieve. The problem of unstable family structures, often exacerbated by unemployment, has been recognised in white working-class communities for many years - I have seen references to it in school inspection reports from the 1970s where Asian children were seen to be able to learn better due to their stronger family structures.
>  
> The problem of boys' underachievement seems to be related to male cultures and especially estates where status is not conferred by having a job but via other routes, which are not attained via educational success. A good read on this is Gillian Evans' book 'Educational Failure and Working Class White Children in Britain' - she has something to say about the problems of working-class black children as well.
>  
> It is really pleasing to see this topic coming up for discussion on BASA.
>  
> Best wishes
>  
> Dr Nicola Sheldon
> Institute of Historical Research
> University of London
>  
> 
> ________________________________
> 
> From: The Black and Asian Studies Association on behalf of Simons, Andy
> Sent: Mon 27/06/2011 17:03
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: some statistics
> 
> 
> Good sense from Kathleen!  Of course research stats, like opinion poll results, are pretty meaningless unless there's context and numerous other studies to compare the results with.  This reminds me of the news story last week about how type 2 diabetes could be reversed, based on a study that used only 11 patients.  Ben Goldacre will no doubt deal with that one.
>  
> They say it's an achievement if your kids stay out of prison.  But immigrants do tend to try harder.  And, although there are no guarantees in life, kids generally won't succeed in school unless their parents place great value on it.  
>  
> -Andy Simons
>  
> ________________________________
> 
> From: The Black and Asian Studies Association [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Kathleen Chater
> Sent: 27 June 2011 16:28
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: some statistics
>  
> A lot of these statistics are meaningless if they are not contextualised and compared to other factors.  What is the percentage of white working-class boys who achieve A-C in GCSE exams? I think that's pretty low too. Why are both working-class white and Black Caribbean boys behind Asians (both from the Indian sub-continent and China) in the GCSE tables?  Why is there this huge gap between black boys and girls?  If it is claimed that this is because Black pupils aren't taught about their history, why doesn't it affect girls equally? Neither Indian nor Chinese history is much mentioned in history lessons, which doesn't seem to inhibit these pupils from outperforming everyone else. What is the percentage of white girls getting A-C GCSE?  
>  
> We also need to take into account the fact that white male middle-class liberals write brilliant equal opportunity statements, but keep all the good jobs for themselves and their friends.  What proportion of Social Services directors - indeed directors of any kind in the public service- are female?  My experience in government and local authority run organisations has led me to draw a direct correlation between the amount of time spent on writing and publicising the equal opportunities policy and the number of BEM and women actually in positions of power.  The more time spent on the former, the lower the number in the latter group.
>  
> A simple recital of statistics and the simplistic conclusion that it's all racial prejudice will not achieve anything. We haven't begun to consider the influence of culture(s) on both behaviour and its perception by people whose cultural norms are different. 
>  
> Kathy Chater
> ________________________________
> 
> Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 11:14:42 +0100
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: some statistics
> To: [log in to unmask]
> At the BASA conference last Saturday I noted these statistics:
>  
> 1. Office of National Statistics, 2005:
> Only 27% of Black Caribbean boys and 44% of girls achieved grades A - C in GCSE exams 
>  
> Permanent exclusion rates for 'Other Black' was 42 per 10,000 pupils; for 'Black Caribbean' it was 41 per 10,000;  and for 'Mixed White and Black Caribbean' 37 per 10,000. For Whites it was 14 per 10,000.
>  
> 2. Guardian 27/5/2011:
> Of 14,000 professors in academia, 0.4% were Black
>  
> 3. Black Bright |News #26
> While 17% of social workers are from Black and Ethnic Minority groups, only 2.5% of Social Services directors are 'BEM'.
>  
> 4. CIBER/UCL, April 2009
> 45% of Londoners but only 3.9% of local authority library staff are 'BEM' 
>  
> 2% of the members of the Chartered Institute of Library and Information professionals are Black.
>  
> 5. Cultural Leadership Programme, 2011
> While 11.0% of the working age population of England is 'BME', 
> 3.7% of senior civil servants at the DCMS are 'BME'
> 2.3% of accredited librarians
> 3.3% of 'strategic and operations managers in national and hub museums'
> 4.6% of the 'entire archive workforce regardless of seniority'
>  
> 6. Ofsted report 2011
> A survey of 222 primary school teachers found that
> 67% had no history advisors
> 90% had little or no training in history
>  
> 7. Runnymede Trust
> In the Education Bill for 2011 there is no reference to race equality or the prevention of racial bullying.
>  
> 8. Guardian 23/5/2011
> Research on people 'stopped' under the Terrorism Act 2000 when split into those questioned for over and under one hour showed that:
>             Over one hour               Under one hour
> Whites              19%                            45%
> Asians            41%                            25%
> Blacks                        10%                            8%
> Other              30%                            22%                
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> 
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