If you can justify having a person to do a job then they should be paid. Failure to take this into consideration when either reflecting upon or creating a business plan is poor management.
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-----Original Message-----
From: Michele Erat <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 10:36:49
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] Unpaid Intern Court Victory
Hi everyone
I can only speak for a small academic research lab in Biochemistry here in the UK: We would love to employ paid interns, but we don't have the means to do so - plainly speaking: no surplus funding to pay salaries. Thus we have to tell people that unless they find their own stipend (of which they are a few, but one has to be very early in applying), we can't offer them anything. It follows that the ones that come in often "finance themselves", which means, they were either very organised and got a stipend OR they have someone in the background who pays for their expenses... This is very sad, because a lot of good people who just can't afford to work for free, will not get the chance of gaining additional work experience.
On the contrary, when I was an undergraduate myself, I did a paid intern with a pharma company in Switzerland. I didn't get rich, but I could sustain myself and gained a lot of experience which is still useful to me to this day. I could not have done this without being paid and I wouldn't be where I am now.
michele
On 29 May 2011, at 14:48, Michael Kenward wrote:
> There's the issue summed up in one brief and eloquent message.
>
> If unpaid internships were illegal, employers would not be able to talk
> about "absolutely
> no relevant work experience".
>
> Who comes out of a university with work experience? Only those with parents
> who can pull strings. I graduated with holiday-job experience in putting up
> office furniture.
>
> Get rid of unpaid internships and we can get back to the bad old days when
> employers expected to train new recruits.
>
> How many research scientists face the same challenge? Are they expected to
> put in many months of slave labour for nothing? (I know that PhD students
> don't live in the lap of luxury, but they do get something.) Does CERN take
> in unpaid interns?
>
> Is this egregious phenomenon limited to the media and its associated domains
> (like advertising, publishing and Public Engagement in Science and
> Technology), law firms (firms being the operative word here, which may
> explain why they do not behave in the same way as companies) and politics?
>
> Do GPs have to do unpaid internships?
>
> The notion that "most employers don't see people who have not made this
> sacrifice as worthy of employment" is probably being too kind to the
> employers. That isn't their reasoning at all. They just don't want to pay
> the people who work for them.
>
> I'm sorry if this upsets people who don't like the idea of social mobility -
> is diddums worried that working class proles will outshine them?
>
> It might be nice for some people to work for MPs because they were in the
> fortunate position of being able to sustain themselves, but this again
> ensures that parliament is stuffed with rich kids who haven't got a clue.
> Look no further than the current mob, few of whom have done a proper job,
> thanks to the fact that family wealth bankrolled them while brighter
> individuals had to earn a living.
>
> At least if you set up a pop group you know that you are starving on your
> own. There aren't any well paid executive rushing off to have expensive
> lunches while you work for nothing.
>
> MK
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: psci-com: on public engagement with science
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Emma Welsh
> Sent: 28 May 2011 20:19
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] Unpaid Intern Court Victory
>
> Out of interest, are any of you in the position of being able to offer
> jobs willing to offer them to people (grads/postdocs) with absolutely
> no relevant work experience at all? I was rejected from many, many
> jobs on the basis of not having relevant experience and even told on
> one occasion to 'carry on doing internships and I'm sure you'll get a
> job eventually'. The organisations offering internships are not the
> only ones to blame here. The motivated can fund themselves for three
> months, using savings, crashing on friend's floors and a bit of
> freelance work or bar work without being born with a silver spoon in
> their mouths or resorting to JSA. Apparently most employers don't see
> people who have not made this sacrifice as worthy of employment in
> this (and many other) industry. Maybe we could have a pop at this
> group instead??!
>
> Cheers
> Emma.
>
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Michele Erat PhD
Department of Biochemistry
University of Oxford
South Parks Road
Oxford OX1 3QU
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