I have been in OH for @ 10 years and am anticipating commencing further
study in September. It would be tragic to loose such a wealth of diverse
experience and knowledge where else can you get free advice from so many
experts in the field and not be afraid to ask any question no matter how
simple, we all need the support of our OH community as we are so widely
spread and often lone working.
Please accept our sincere gratitude for yours and Kevins efforts and the
idea of adding our field of work and area of study to our details is a good
idea for auditing, any way we can support the list and yourselves is ok with
me.
thanks
Catherine Farrimond
----- Original Message -----
From: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 10:26 AM
Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] OHA's Salary and Friday funnies
Thanks for this Rita, particularly your offer of support.
With regard to Friday funnies - I circulate to my friends and family amusing
emails. Some have included H&S transgressions which can be adapted into OHPs
for teaching/training purposes, you have probably seen the ones I mean eg a
man balanced on a step ladder in a paddling pool pool of water and changing
a light bulb. Although not a fan of Friday Funnies I can live with those
being circulated. If subscribers are wondering whether a "funny" should be
posted the following may be a guide. Would you circulate the same email to
senior managers within your employing organisation. In my case, how would I
feel if someone forwarded it to our Vice Chancellor and he knew it had
orriginated from my inbox. If the answer makes you feel uncomfortable then
don't post.
I know of one contributor (A) who regularly posted Friday funnies and then
posted something inappropriate on JISC. A subscriber (B) made a comment on
list. Subscriber A then responded in a rather off hand way. Person A shot
themselves in the foot - the following week they were interviewed for a
post. Person B was on the i/view panel. Guess what - person A didn't get the
job. Two contributing factors - the amount of time they were spending
sending Friday funnies from a work address and in work time (09.00-5.00) and
the inappropriateness of their offhand response. Had they been sharing
pearls of wisdom and not made an off-hand response their contribution to
JISC may have been seen as a positive.
Helpful contributions don't always come from people who have years of OH
experience and are in senior grades. I see that some of my students
contribute some very helpful comments. One of my current OH students is a
Chartered Organisational Psychologist - their comments are particularly
helpful. S/he has pscyhology experience that, to my knowledge, can only be
matched by one other subscriber. You both know who you are and please keep
up the good work.
Anne
On 01/04/2011 08:23, "Rita Ogden" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Hi Anne and Kevin,
> I think the list is invaluable in terms of support, guidance and the
> sharing
> of ideas. It would be a definite blow to us if the list folds and I think
> both
> your emails are very succinct in letting us members know what we need to
> do in
> order that the list is maintained and continued.
> I myself have been guilty of sending Friday Funnies in the past and I
> received
> good responses from these. To me, they provided much-needed relief after a
> busy week. We are all different and what amuses one can clearly irritate
> another. I will refrain from sending any funnies out now that I know it
> can be
> problematic.
> If there is anything that I as an individual can do (working in an
> academic
> institution) please let me know.
> I would be distraught if this list was forced to close due to
> inappropriate
> postings.
> Kind regards,
> Rita
>
> Rita E.Ogden
> Lead Occupational Health Specialist Practitioner
> Occupational Health Service
> Westbrook Building 9H
> Bradford College
> Great Horton Road
> Bradford BD7 1AY
> Tel: 01274 433259
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
> Behalf
> Of [log in to unmask]
> Sent: 31 March 2011 19:16
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: OHA's Salary
>
> Totally agree - As co-managers we have certain responsibilities including
> ensuring the list runs as per the rules set by HEFCE. Both Kevin and I do
> this
> in our own time and with no remuneration. We do it because we believe in
> the
> resource however, I am getting irritated by receiving complaints both on
> and
> off list - particularly the rude ones!
>
> Anne
>
>
> On 31/03/2011 17:56, "Kevin Maguire" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> Before I say what I have to say, I must empty a strong image in my
>> mind. For those who have read Koestler's story of the slave revolt in
>> Rome, you will recall how it ends with the very slaves who revolted
>> having to deal with fellow revolutionaries who then disagreed with the
>> main protagonists: they crucified them. It heralded the downfall of the
>> revolt.
>>
>>
>> So having exorcised that, I am about to make a statement that could
>> well be seen in those terms. In a positive frame, I am asking for
>> list members to exercise professional discipline (I say so while being
>> aware of the Foucauldian interpretation of discipline). In a more
>> negative frame, I must draw a clear line on the uses and abuses of the
>> list*.
>>
>> Our Occ-health list exists through the offices of and with the
>> excellent technical support from the Joint Information Services
>> Committee (JISC) of the Higher Education Funding Council of England
>> (HEFCE). JISC supports list for academics to exchange knowledge and
>> ideas. Bashyr and I started occ-health quite some time ago and we
>> subverted it to the use of ALL professionals involved in the health of
>> workers. We must never lose sight, however, of the fact that it is, to
>> the outside, an academic list. There are plenty of chatty lists that
>> are run through Hotmail, Yahoo etc. and, of course, there are social
>> networks such as myspace and facebook. We are funded by HEFCE and HEFCE
>> have
>> rules and guidelines.
>>
>> I, to some extent, but Anne, in particular, gets an avalanche of
>> complaints from list members when there are Friday funnies, commercial
>> emails (particularly selling of services and recruitment and
>> quasi-recruitment requests), and short emails which do not add to
>> knowledge and practice (those witty quips and vacuous comments). Of
>> course, it is not the receiving of them per se that is a problem (well
>> in a way it is for us - see further along), it is that we are funded
>> by a UK government funded body which, if they scrutinised the list,
>> would simply ask why this was not taking place on one of the more
>> public (and unresourced) fora such as Yahoo or Facebook. List members
>> will not be aware that Anne and I as the co-owners (that is HEFCE's
>> term for list managers) receive dozens of emails from HEFCE each day
>> as a result of the postings going to full mailboxes or addresses that
>> no longer work (currently for each posting we get six notifications -
>> that means today up to now, we have received 15 X 6 notifications =
>> 90 additional unnecessary emails). We have day jobs (and, as those in
>> academe will understand, our 'day jobs' take 70hrs plus per week) and
>> run the list becasue we think it is important - but we also await that
>> 'knock at the door' when the content and list membership are scrutinised
>> and
>> that will be the day that the list is closed.
>>
>> If people leave the list, then so be it. If members want social
>> support, if members want to exchange wit, if members want to send
>> empty comments, if members want to advertise jobs or sell services
>> then please go form a list on yahoo. If you want to exchange
>> knowledge and good practice, if you want to analyse trends, if you
>> want to share research, if you want to discuss government white papers
>> or other publications, if you wish to reflect on what you do and how
>> it can be improved then please remain in the list and exercise
>> professional
>> restrain.
>>
>> So back to the slaves revolt: my email might lose the list membership;
>> it might sow the seeds of its own downfall. I hope not. Anne and I
>> will continue to subvert the list to the use of ALL practitioners for
>> as long as we can but please don't make that job harder.
>>
>> Sorry for the tirade.
>>
>> Kevin
>>
>> * Such a line once drawn is meaningless without sanction and so it is
>> fair to say that sanctioning might take place.
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: [log in to unmask] [[log in to unmask]] on behalf
>> of Employee Health Care [[log in to unmask]]
>> Sent: 31 March 2011 16:44
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] OHA's Salary
>>
>> Anne,
>>
>> I think the out right dismissal and intolerance of other peopleıs
>> views is not only condescending but will contribute to driving away
>> many potential contributors away from jisc mail.
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 16:29:13 +0100
>> From: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] OHA's Salary
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>
>>
>> Further to my posting earlier today in my capacity as co-manager of
>> this JISC list.
>> If anyone wishes to continue this discussion please feel free to do
>> so, but OFF LIST.
>> Thank you
>> Anne Harriss
>>
>> On Mar 31 2011, Employee Health Care wrote:
>>
>>
>> Can I make myself clear here, when I say NHS specialist earn more I am
>> not referring to the occupational health specialist working in the NHS
>> but rather the other specialist nurses like diabetic, infection
>> control or ITU nurses, comparatively these nurses earn slightly more
>> than their Oh counterparts. I agree with the notion of supply and
>> demand but that implies that there are more OH advisors than the
>> market requires, this contradicts the realities in many OH departments
>> in organisations up and down the country struggling to fill OH advisor
>> post. See Dr. Richard Preece article in the March edition of the
>> Occupational
>> Health Journal.
>>
>> Musa
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 08:21:38 +0100
>> From: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] OHA's Salary
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Prior to my current role I worked in the NHS as an OH specialist
>> practitioner and my salary really wasnıt that good. I have been in my
>> current post for just under 3 years and my pay has increased
>> significantly from the NHS pay so I struggle to see where Musa is
>> coming from! I have friends also who worked for the NHS and now work in
>> the
>> private sector where the money is better.
>> In my humble opinion it often can depend on whether the organisation
>> knows what OH actually does and what our role entails. I am lucky
>> enough to work in such a place, although I have worked hard to
>> highlight what my role actually is and offer value for money into the
>> bargain.
>> Perhaps Iım not in Kansas anymore Toto!!!!
>>
>>
>> Rita E.Ogden
>> Lead Occupational Health Specialist Practitioner Occupational Health
>> Service Westbrook Building 9H Bradford College Great Horton Road
>> Bradford BD7 1AY
>> Tel: 01274 433259
>>
>>
>> From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
>> Behalf Of sharon naylor
>> Sent: 30 March 2011 19:29
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: OHA's Salary
>>
>> I think it depends on what value the organisation puts on OH, recent
>> posts discussed hourly rates and pay generally- and the fact that
>> circa £25/hr was usual for OHA`s but "counsellors" and similar could
>> charge upwards of £75/hr with arguably less qulaifications. I suppose
>> there is an argument about supply and demand too.
>>
>> The comment about OH providers will doubtless be controversial - I
>> have no idea so wont add to the impending controversy, but have to say
>> that I hadnt noticed that the NHS were necessarily "better payers". I
>> think that if you work for private companies it depends whether they
>> want to pay on NHS pay banding, as their perception is that we are
>> "nurses" they look at what a "nurse" would get for working on a ward and
>> offer similarly.
>>
>> I`m not sure that anyones salary has increased much lately in any
>> profession...............
>>
>> However , if salaries are low then its because employers can get
>> people for that money, and its an employers market at the moment
>>
>>
>>
>> Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 15:30:37 +0000
>> From: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: [OCC-HEALTH] OHA's Salary
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi List,
>>
>> I have been talking to few colleagues about the state of OHas, their
>> salary and career prospect. It is quite baffling when one looks at the
>> job adverts on recruitment websites, the poor salary being offered to
>> qualified OHAs compared to their specialist counterparts in the NHS. What
>> do
>> people think about this?
>> Is this a reflection of the status of occupational health in general
>> or is it due to the proliferation of OH providers whose main objective
>> is to keep salaries low and make lots of profit? In my observations
>> the salaries being offered to OHAs has not moved for the past three
>> years, now compare that to OHP, a complete ball of game. I think as a
>> profession we needs to discuss about this and find a way to raise our
>> profile and halt the stagnation in remuneration and status. I look
>> forward to
>> memberıs contribution.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Musa
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