Dear Erica,
I agree that any representation has to be co-ordinated with the other languages. It would surely be a mistake for German to see itself as a windowless monad; in any case, presumably REF panel members will not just be interested in their own home disciplines, but will extend a hermeneutisches Wohlwollen to all the languages. Given that this is the first time a single panel for the European languages has been constituted, one has to hope that HEFCE will make good on the rhetoric and actually see research into European culture as an integrated whole, not as a series of discrete disciplines.
All best,
Ben.
Dr Ben Hutchinson
Senior Lecturer and Head of German,
Director of the Kent Institute for Advanced Studies in the Humanities,
Co-Director, Centre for Modern European Literature,
University of Kent
http://www.kent.ac.uk/secl/german/staff/hutchinson.html
________________________________________
From: JISCmail German Studies List [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Carter, Erica [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 05 March 2011 12:59
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: FW: AGS consultation
Dear all,
I take the point about a boycott alienating the public. On the other hand, internal lobbying of HEFCE, necessary as it is, also keeps our expressions of concern safely under wraps and out of the public eye. We seem to forget that the public also consists in part of people who support us in our efforts to sustain the language disciplines, and German in particular. We know we have friends in the arts, in the business community at home and abroad (viz. the European Commission's 2008 Languages mean Business report), among humanities scholars (the British Academy etc.), among school teachers and students of German - not to mention our own students, who are often the most passionate advocates of teaching and reseaarch in German.
Piecemeal lobbying also puts us in a position of rivalry with other languages disciplines. We are all jostling for position to make sure we get proper representation on the REF panels - but is the only strategy really just to join the fray and try to raise the quota of German panel members, possibly to the detriment of other languages?
Opposition to what we perceive as the skewed and divisive politics of the REF might be more effective, it seems to me, if it took place in the context first of a collective response from German in particular to HEFCE's REF plans, and second, of a larger public defence of research and teaching not just in German, but across Modern Languages.
On the former issue, who would join me in sending a jointly signed letter of concern to HEFCE?
On the latter, I'm sure I'm not the only one of us who's been looking with interest at the Campaign for the Humanities, and the series of public events they've been holding (including one last week at CRASSH) on various issues relating both to the humanities as a whole, and in one case to a particular discipline (Philosophy).
The British Philosophical Association organised a panel in December with various prominent speakers including Martha Nussbaum, and Lord Rees (Astronomer Royal) (see http://humanitiesmatter.wordpress.com/category/events/.) So far though, the Campaign for the Humanities has done nothing specifically on languages. The British Academy did start the ball rolling for a renewal post-Browne of public debate on languages with the launch of the 'Language Matters More and More' report, as well as David Crystal's British Academy lecture on language diversity (see http://www.britac.ac.uk/events/events-2011.cfm). So how about an event that takes up the thread of discussions started at these BA events, run - if the campaign organisers are agreeable - under the auspices of the Campaign for the Humanities, and involving prominent public figures in a panel discussion on the language disciplines. Anyone up for this too?
All the best,
Erica
Professor Erica Carter
Department of German
School of Arts and Humanities
King's College London
Strand
London WC2R 2LS
Tel: +44 (0)20 7848 2124
FAX: +44 (0)20 7848 2089
[log in to unmask]
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From: JISCmail German Studies List [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ronald Speirs [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 05 March 2011 11:53
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: FW: AGS consultation
Frank is surely right that the REF, flawed as it is, is the only game in town. Not to participate would simply mean that we'd get no chips at all.
On the point of the panel make-up, however, it's worth remembering that the size of the post-bag on a particular issue tends to affect the views of those making a judgement. If colleagues in departments up and down the country believe that German is under-represented on the ML panel then the more departments and colleagues who write to HEFCE to complain, the more the REF organisers are likely at least to think again about this decision.
Ron
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From: JISCmail German Studies List [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Frank Finlay [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 04 March 2011 17:27
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: FW: AGS consultation
Peter, Colleaagues
In relation to the 3* 4* thread: the important distinction is that HEFCE will not fund research rated below this level. That is a different proposition than research only of that level being submitted.
Imagine Dr X with a profile of published 4 outputs rated, respectively 1@ 4* 1@ 3* and and 2@ 2* or lower.
Were Dr X not to be submitted, the institution would pass on funding for the outputs at 3 and above.
They would also lose Dr X's students, any grant funding and place in any potential impact case study, all of which would feed into the environment and impact scores which make up 45% of the overall submission (score).
They would be plain daft to do so.
That doesn't of course mean that our institutions will be deliberating on what quality thresholds will have to be met to allow for submission.
As last time it is likely to be derived from a grade point average.
In the above example Dr X would have 2.75 GPA. Depending on your institutional policy, that might suffice. Clearly other profiles are possible.
Please take this as a hopefully helpful comment on the practicalities with a view to allaying concerns, not as an apology for the REF or indeed the multipliers which will be applied to divide up the money. HEFCE has already instructed that present funding for 2* will be reduced and redistributed across 3 and 4* for 11/12 and it is my understanding that there will be nothing for 2* thereafter.
As to a boycott, given that the REF is there, in part, as with the RAE before it, to provide public accountability for the tax payer, I am not sure it would be an approach that would be particularly helpful to the cause of ML or Arts and Humanities in these austere times.
Best, Frank
Frank Finlay, Professor of German | Dean of the Faculty of Arts| The University of Leeds, UK | President, Association for German Studies in Great Britain and Ireland
T: 0113 343 2687 | E: [log in to unmask] | W: http://www.leeds.ac.uk/german/staff/frank_finlay.htm
-----Original Message-----
From: JISCmail German Studies List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Peter Thompson
Sent: 04 March 2011 16:54
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: FW: AGS consultation
Ian and Erica
Of course, if - as seems the case from the other thread on this list - we
are only going to be able to submit 3* and 4* material then the overall
number of submissions will be considerably lower.
It seems to me that we are reaching a stage where we are being asked to
jump through very smaller hoops held ever higher off the ground for ever
diminishing resources. Might it not be time to start to think about modern
languages or even humanities as a whole boycotting the whole sorry and
stressful exercise? We are not performing circus poodles after all.
Peter
Dr Peter Thompson
Director, Centre for Ernst Bloch Studies
http://shef.ac.uk/ernstbloch/)
Senior Lecturer in German
Department of Germanic Studies
Jessop West
1 Upper Hanover Street
Sheffield S3 7RA
tel: 0114 222 4907
fax: 0114 2222 888
http://www.guardian.co.uk/profile/peter-thompson
Quoting "Ian F. Roe" <[log in to unmask]>:
> Dear Frank and all
>
> Although retirement next year will save me from the lunacy that is REF,
> I can only agree with the criticisms that have been aired. It seems
> rather curious that German departments seek to emphasise that even their
> undergraduate courses are taught by staff who are an expert in the
> particular field, yet when it is a matter of professional judgments
> affecting millions of pounds of public money and even - dare one say -
> the survival or otherwise of some parts of the sector, then suddenly two
> colleagues are expected to cover the entire discipline.
>
> Regards, Ian
>
> From: JISCmail German Studies List
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Carter, Erica
> Sent: 02 March 2011 11:27
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: AGS consultation
>
> Dear Frank,
>
> I agree with Dan that this looks like a very skewed panel. Simply in
> terms of workload, it is unworkable - there is no way that two people,
> however committed and knowledgeable, can deal with the volume of
> material likely to be submitted. And there is of course also an issue of
> coverage. We will all have personal axes to grind on this question - my
> own would be the absence of significant representation on
> German-language film - but that could be dealt with if there was
> critical mass for German on the panel.
>
> Since there is so much at stake here for the discipline, we surely need
> to protest as vigorously as possible at this point. I understand that
> you don't want to add to members' inboxes, but if you're to make
> representation on our behalf, it would make sense for those of us who
> want to see the panel changed to add our names to a list. So count me
> in.
>
> Erica
>
>
> Professor Erica Carter
> Department of German (Incoming HOD)
> School of Arts and Humanities
> King's College London
> The Strand
> London
> WC2R 2LS
>
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