It is interesting that the issue of whether this is the right place to
discuss the issue at hand has generated more emails than the issue at
hand. A facebook group might be a good idea but I am not sure how many
academic colleagues are on facebook. I am and I could look into setting up
a group if people thought it useful. It would certainly bring the matter
to the attention of students and that can't be a bad thing, given that
theya re going to be hit with a massive increase in fees just when we are
facing what amounts for many to an existential threat to our funding.
Peter
--
Dr Peter Thompson
Director, Centre for Ernst Bloch Studies
http://shef.ac.uk/ernstbloch/)
Senior Lecturer in German
Department of Germanic Studies
Jessop West
1 Upper Hanover Street
Sheffield S3 7RA
tel: 0114 222 4907
fax: 0114 2222 888
http://www.guardian.co.uk/profile/peter-thompson
Quoting Frank Finlay <[log in to unmask]>:
> Dear Erica, Colleagues
>
> I am drafting a letter on our (AGS) behalf to HEFCE in relation to the
> current composition of the REF panel and will share with you tomorrow,
> all being well. To take Ron's point it will make reference to how many
> departments have voiced their concern.
>
> In haste but with best wishes,
>
> Frank
>
> ________________________________________
> From: JISCmail German Studies List [[log in to unmask]] On
> Behalf Of Carter, Erica [[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: 05 March 2011 12:59
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: FW: AGS consultation
>
> Dear all,
>
> I take the point about a boycott alienating the public. On the other
> hand, internal lobbying of HEFCE, necessary as it is, also keeps our
> expressions of concern safely under wraps and out of the public eye. We
> seem to forget that the public also consists in part of people who
> support us in our efforts to sustain the language disciplines, and
> German in particular. We know we have friends in the arts, in the
> business community at home and abroad (viz. the European Commission's
> 2008 Languages mean Business report), among humanities scholars (the
> British Academy etc.), among school teachers and students of German -
> not to mention our own students, who are often the most passionate
> advocates of teaching and reseaarch in German.
>
> Piecemeal lobbying also puts us in a position of rivalry with other
> languages disciplines. We are all jostling for position to make sure we
> get proper representation on the REF panels - but is the only strategy
> really just to join the fray and try to raise the quota of German panel
> members, possibly to the detriment of other languages?
>
> Opposition to what we perceive as the skewed and divisive politics of
> the REF might be more effective, it seems to me, if it took place in the
> context first of a collective response from German in particular to
> HEFCE's REF plans, and second, of a larger public defence of research
> and teaching not just in German, but across Modern Languages.
>
> On the former issue, who would join me in sending a jointly signed
> letter of concern to HEFCE?
>
> On the latter, I'm sure I'm not the only one of us who's been looking
> with interest at the Campaign for the Humanities, and the series of
> public events they've been holding (including one last week at CRASSH)
> on various issues relating both to the humanities as a whole, and in one
> case to a particular discipline (Philosophy).
>
> The British Philosophical Association organised a panel in December
> with various prominent speakers including Martha Nussbaum, and Lord Rees
> (Astronomer Royal) (see
> http://humanitiesmatter.wordpress.com/category/events/.) So far though,
> the Campaign for the Humanities has done nothing specifically on
> languages. The British Academy did start the ball rolling for a renewal
> post-Browne of public debate on languages with the launch of the
> 'Language Matters More and More' report, as well as David Crystal's
> British Academy lecture on language diversity (see
> http://www.britac.ac.uk/events/events-2011.cfm). So how about an event
> that takes up the thread of discussions started at these BA events, run
> - if the campaign organisers are agreeable - under the auspices of the
> Campaign for the Humanities, and involving prominent public figures in a
> panel discussion on the language disciplines. Anyone up for this too?
>
> All the best,
>
> Erica
>
> Professor Erica Carter
> Department of German
> School of Arts and Humanities
> King's College London
> Strand
> London WC2R 2LS
> Tel: +44 (0)20 7848 2124
> FAX: +44 (0)20 7848 2089
> [log in to unmask]
> ________________________________________
> From: JISCmail German Studies List [[log in to unmask]] On
> Behalf Of Ronald Speirs [[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: 05 March 2011 11:53
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: FW: AGS consultation
>
> Frank is surely right that the REF, flawed as it is, is the only game in
> town. Not to participate would simply mean that we'd get no chips at
> all.
>
> On the point of the panel make-up, however, it's worth remembering that
> the size of the post-bag on a particular issue tends to affect the views
> of those making a judgement. If colleagues in departments up and down
> the country believe that German is under-represented on the ML panel
> then the more departments and colleagues who write to HEFCE to complain,
> the more the REF organisers are likely at least to think again about
> this decision.
>
> Ron
>
> ________________________________________
> From: JISCmail German Studies List [[log in to unmask]] On
> Behalf Of Frank Finlay [[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: 04 March 2011 17:27
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: FW: AGS consultation
>
> Peter, Colleaagues
>
> In relation to the 3* 4* thread: the important distinction is that HEFCE
> will not fund research rated below this level. That is a different
> proposition than research only of that level being submitted.
>
> Imagine Dr X with a profile of published 4 outputs rated, respectively
> 1@ 4* 1@ 3* and and 2@ 2* or lower.
>
> Were Dr X not to be submitted, the institution would pass on funding for
> the outputs at 3 and above.
>
> They would also lose Dr X's students, any grant funding and place in any
> potential impact case study, all of which would feed into the
> environment and impact scores which make up 45% of the overall
> submission (score).
>
> They would be plain daft to do so.
>
> That doesn't of course mean that our institutions will be deliberating
> on what quality thresholds will have to be met to allow for submission.
>
> As last time it is likely to be derived from a grade point average.
>
> In the above example Dr X would have 2.75 GPA. Depending on your
> institutional policy, that might suffice. Clearly other profiles are
> possible.
>
> Please take this as a hopefully helpful comment on the practicalities
> with a view to allaying concerns, not as an apology for the REF or
> indeed the multipliers which will be applied to divide up the money.
> HEFCE has already instructed that present funding for 2* will be reduced
> and redistributed across 3 and 4* for 11/12 and it is my understanding
> that there will be nothing for 2* thereafter.
>
> As to a boycott, given that the REF is there, in part, as with the RAE
> before it, to provide public accountability for the tax payer, I am not
> sure it would be an approach that would be particularly helpful to the
> cause of ML or Arts and Humanities in these austere times.
>
> Best, Frank
>
> Frank Finlay, Professor of German | Dean of the Faculty of Arts| The
> University of Leeds, UK | President, Association for German Studies in
> Great Britain and Ireland
>
> T: 0113 343 2687 | E: [log in to unmask] | W:
> http://www.leeds.ac.uk/german/staff/frank_finlay.htm
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: JISCmail German Studies List
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Peter Thompson
> Sent: 04 March 2011 16:54
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: FW: AGS consultation
>
> Ian and Erica
> Of course, if - as seems the case from the other thread on this list -
> we
> are only going to be able to submit 3* and 4* material then the overall
> number of submissions will be considerably lower.
> It seems to me that we are reaching a stage where we are being asked to
> jump through very smaller hoops held ever higher off the ground for
> ever
> diminishing resources. Might it not be time to start to think about
> modern
> languages or even humanities as a whole boycotting the whole sorry and
> stressful exercise? We are not performing circus poodles after all.
> Peter
>
> Dr Peter Thompson
> Director, Centre for Ernst Bloch Studies
> http://shef.ac.uk/ernstbloch/)
> Senior Lecturer in German
> Department of Germanic Studies
> Jessop West
> 1 Upper Hanover Street
> Sheffield S3 7RA
> tel: 0114 222 4907
> fax: 0114 2222 888
>
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/profile/peter-thompson
>
>
>
>
> Quoting "Ian F. Roe" <[log in to unmask]>:
>
> > Dear Frank and all
> >
> > Although retirement next year will save me from the lunacy that is
> REF,
> > I can only agree with the criticisms that have been aired. It seems
> > rather curious that German departments seek to emphasise that even
> their
> > undergraduate courses are taught by staff who are an expert in the
> > particular field, yet when it is a matter of professional judgments
> > affecting millions of pounds of public money and even - dare one say
> -
> > the survival or otherwise of some parts of the sector, then suddenly
> two
> > colleagues are expected to cover the entire discipline.
> >
> > Regards, Ian
> >
> > From: JISCmail German Studies List
> > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Carter, Erica
> > Sent: 02 March 2011 11:27
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: AGS consultation
> >
> > Dear Frank,
> >
> > I agree with Dan that this looks like a very skewed panel. Simply in
> > terms of workload, it is unworkable - there is no way that two
> people,
> > however committed and knowledgeable, can deal with the volume of
> > material likely to be submitted. And there is of course also an issue
> of
> > coverage. We will all have personal axes to grind on this question -
> my
> > own would be the absence of significant representation on
> > German-language film - but that could be dealt with if there was
> > critical mass for German on the panel.
> >
> > Since there is so much at stake here for the discipline, we surely
> need
> > to protest as vigorously as possible at this point. I understand that
> > you don't want to add to members' inboxes, but if you're to make
> > representation on our behalf, it would make sense for those of us who
> > want to see the panel changed to add our names to a list. So count me
> > in.
> >
> > Erica
> >
> >
> > Professor Erica Carter
> > Department of German (Incoming HOD)
> > School of Arts and Humanities
> > King's College London
> > The Strand
> > London
> > WC2R 2LS
> >
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