Feb 6

Dear Melissa,

To cut to the proverbial chase:

(a) I know Graham Harvey and can readily get the reference from him.

(b) The fact that Wiccans believe that in Wicca they have at last found what they have been seeking is irrelevant to the issue, which is that if asked why Wicca is for them home, they would--if rational--say more than that Wicca "feels right" for them.   They might start that way, but they would soon seek to justify how what is right for them is right per se.

I don't know a thing about Wicca, but if Wiccans believe in preserving the environment, they will not say that, oh, this is just their own little hobby but that the environment should be preserved by everyone and that religions that ignore the environment are inferior to those that do not.   Suppose a religion, such as ancient Gnosticism, espoused indifference to the physical world on the grounds that the physical world is evil.   Would Wiccans say, fine, the physical world is just not a Gnostic's thing?   And then why is it a Wiccan's thing?   Because that is what makes a Wiccan Wiccan?   That is circular, and a Wiccan who could offer no more of a justification would be like the proverbial American who says "I don't anything about cars, but I want a Chevy."

(c) The analogy with discovering that one is gay does not hold--for the reason I have given.

(d) Since aeons ago in these exchanges I maintained that respect for other religions requires more than refraining from persecuting rival religions, your praise of Wicca for being more tolerant than, so you claim, Catholicism is irrelevant to the issue, which is whether commitment to Wiccan convictions permits appreciation of other points of view.   Still think that it does?   So be it.

(e) Finally, your answers to my would-be rhetorical questions are likewise irrelevant to the issue, which is whether respect for other religions can extend to a religion that would deny the values of Wicca.   It is one thing to acknowledge the existence of exclusivist religions.   It is another to respect them.   The tone of your own statement and that of several others belies to the claim of respect.


Robert

________________________________________
From: Society for The Academic Study of Magic [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Melissa Harrington [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 12:39 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] How to Cure a Witch...

Sorry, thats Coming home and Coming Out Pagan but not Converting, by Graham Harvey 1999,

On 6 February 2011 00:35, Melissa Harrington <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
Dear Robert

The first survey on Paganism by Margot Adler in the 70s found that Pagans, and particularly witches do 'not convert but home'. This has been found consistently in literature in the growing field of Pagan Studies and has been discussed by Graham Harvey in a chapter called something like 'Coming Home but Not coming out as a Pagan' in  an academic book on conversion to new religions, I haven't got the exact reference as I'm just doing a quick email on  my husbands laptop not on my 'work' computer, but it should be easily found. I can hunt it out tomorrow and post it here if any one wants.

This feeling of coming home is due to the fact that many Wiccan 'converts' have been on a long quest for a suitable religion in which to fulfil their own spirituality, a spirituality they had long before they encountered Wicca, so no they do not need to justify choosing Wicca, and yes they are just like people who are born gay then find to their releif that there is a whole gay culture out there they can join in, who do not consider their deeply held belief/orientation to be sinful and abhorrent. Hence its often called 'coming out of the broom closet'.

In the logic of religious commitment of course they feel their religion is the best, but having gone on such a journey understand that it is the best religion for themselves. There  is an exclusivity about Wicca, it is understood to be a 'mystery religion' that can only be understood by practice, there are no paid jobs or public temples, and crucially there is no compulsion to save anyone else's soul or convert anyone else for any other reason. It is also very post modern in many ways and part of a new religious zeitgeist that has been sneeringly called the spiritual supermarket but marks a time when religion has come to be a choice rather than a matter of blind adherence.

Leo was doing his PhD on Paganism, secularisation and reenchantment at the same time as I was doing mine on conversion processes in Wicca at Kings College, and I think his one liner was rather an apt observation made from a well researched point of view. I was surprised at your response. I have never got round to publishing my PhD and the few papers from it are extremely dated to my first years as a researcher, but if you are genuinly interested I could email you a copy.

 You say you are not a Christian but everything you have written here seems very Christian in orientation to me.  Why on earth would any one have to justify choosing a religion that they felt was a positive faith that encouraged equality, ecology, responsibility and oness with the Divine, that helped them function in the world as human beings?

But in answer to your questions

If Wicca is polytheistic, does it recognize ALL other gods?  Broadly yes, but is not interested in validating other people's divinities.

What if other gods are purportedly exclusivist?   Its a non issue, unless they urge conversion, then it becomes a political rather than a religious issue to a Wiccan.

Does it grant them their exclusivity? Yes, for their followers, they can see their Gods as they like, but it means nothing to the Wiccans

  Does it grant that monotheism is just another option, even though it itself is polytheistic? Yes, of course!

Really these are non issues to Wiccans, they have left these behind on the journey, although the religious landscape is changing and it may be different for the coming generations, most today have considered all this carefully when leaving their nominal birth Christianity. The book which started this thread is a good example. Wiccans still have to live in a world where scandalous rubbish is published about their faith almost daily, and as we have just seen, the Catholic Church feels it is appropriate to publish this book. Leo made a very valid point, in a world where fundamental Xtians burnt Harry Potter books how would the Catholic church take a witches book on evangelising Catholics?What would be the response, that is my question to you Robert.

I have asked the members of the Oxford Pagan Circle if they know this Elizabeth Dodd, and apparently she was a trainee nun that they welcomed to their circle as they welcome all comers for whatever reason they might be there. Now she's published this, the open welcome she received, and her response is seen as par for the course, and not really any cause for concern. The main reaction I have seen across all forums is one of amusement.

regards

Melissa



The University of Aberdeen is a charity registered in Scotland, No SC013683.