If it's not true that Hassan-i-Saba said it, are we therefore
permitted to attribute it to him anyway? Hmmm.
Quoting kaostar <[log in to unmask]>:
> possibly, he did spend a lot of time in North Africa, but it would
> be odd for it not to be readily locatable in some primary source
>
> i don't know my WB well enough to know if he cited anything when
> first mentioning it
>
> Dave E
>
> ---------- Original Message -----------
> From: Ted Hand <[log in to unmask]>
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Sent: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 01:08:41 -0800
> Subject: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] Fw: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC]
> How to Cure a Witch...
>
>> Could it have been something Burroughs read that he misremembered?
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 12:53 AM, kaostar <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>> excellent, yes, and given that if H-i-S ever actually said anything
>> like that, for it to translate from Persian or old Arabic into
>> such a convenient soundbyte in 20th centrury English is expecting
>> rather a lot
>>
>> perhaps just another very nice example of 'an appeal to antiquity'
>> used to bolster a modern aphorism
>>
>> Dave E
>>
>> ---------- Original Message -----------
>> From: Noah Gardiner <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>
>> Sent: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 03:51:28 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] Fw: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC]
>> How to Cure a Witch...
>>
>> > As far as I know from 'straight' historiography of that branch
>> ofthe Nizari Isma'ilis (aka the hashishin/assassins), by which I
>> meanprimarily Farhad Daftary's scholarship on the subject,
>> there'snothing in the Persian or Arabic lit to justify the
>> attribution ofthe quote to Hassan-i Sabbah (d. 1124).
>> >
>> > I've always wondered where Burroughs got it from -- I don't
>> thinkit was from Spare. Brion Gysin mentions it quite a bit (e.g.
>> in _TheProcess_), and Burroughs could have gotten it from him, but
>> thatdoesn't do much to answer the question. Gysin could conceivably
>> havegotten it from some of his Moroccan friends, but I wouldn't be
>> theleast bit surprised to learn it actually originated with
>> Burroughs.
>> >
>> > - Noah
>> >
>> > On 2/9/2011 2:49 AM, kaostar wrote:sorry first time just went to Leigh...
>> >
>> > aye, and the attribution to Hassan is notterribly robust since we
>> don't know a massive amount abouthim. The late Robert Anton Wilson
>> did a lot to popularise theline, but Bob was a good friend of
>> Burroughs, and was later anadmirer of Peter Carroll (leading chaos
>> magical writer), whoalso knew Burroughs, so it becomes complex
>> >
>> > Dave E
>> >
>> > ---------- Original Message -----------
>> > From: Lvxnox <[log in to unmask]>
>> > To: [log in to unmask]
>> > Sent: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 12:08:19 +1100
>> > Subject: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] How to Cure a Witch...
>> >
>> > > "Nothing is true, everything ispermitted" is a slogan
>> attributed to Hassan-i-Saba, known asthe 'Old man of the Mountains
>> - leader of a historical groupof assassins, the Hashashin. William
>> S. Burroughs was fondof quoting this line. I don't believe Spare
>> would have knownof it.
>> > >
>> > > regards
>> > > Leigh Blackmore
>> > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > From: Ian Rees
>> > > To: [log in to unmask]
>> > > Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 11:04 AM
>> > > Subject: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] How to Curea Witch...
>> > >
>> > > I think the motto you are quotingcomes from Austin Osman Spare
>> and reads "Nothing is true,Everything is permitted"- like most of A
>> O Spare'scomments a multilevel and subtle statement which
>> repaysmuch contemplation. It is certainly a cornerstone ofChaos
>> Magic particularly in the sense of belief being atechnique and thus
>> part of the everything that ispermitted but having no duration
>> beyond the praxis. Ioften think it is a shame that so much
>> attention has beenpaid to Spare's work on personal sigils and
>> symbol systemswhen some of his wider views on the praxis of magic
>> are sorich in possibility.
>> > >
>> > > In relation to this motto youcould both respect and disrespect
>> any and all beliefsystems (including your own) which gives you the
>> happyopportunity to offend everybody and as they used to say inthe
>> old music halls "Most Especially Yourself!".
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > best wishes
>> > >
>> > > Ian Rees
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > From: MelissaHarrington
>> > > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 11:14 PM
>> > > To: [log in to unmask]
>> > > Subject: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] How to Curea Witch...
>> > >
>> > > Am I remembering rightlythat the motto for Chaos Magic was
>> "nothing is impossible,everything is permitted."?
>> > >
>> > > Melissa
>> > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > From: D E
>> > > To: [log in to unmask]
>> > > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 11:08 PM
>> > > Subject: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] How toCure a Witch...
>> > >
>> > > sorry that sent while iwas still thinking
>> > >
>> > > i remember first time isaw (crap hollwood reference alert) the
>> film Ghost, withWhoopi Goldberg, as a fake medium who fakes it
>> foryears, but then starts to get 'real spirits' comingthrough
>> > >
>> > > the various chaotics iknew then, and me, found it hysterically
>> funny, but apt
>> > >
>> > > dave e
>> > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > From: D E
>> > > To: [log in to unmask]
>> > > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 11:06 PM
>> > > Subject: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] How toCure a Witch...
>> > >
>> > > The transcience iswhat sets it apart in some ways
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > From: janet ifimust
>> > > To: [log in to unmask]
>> > > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 11:04 PM
>> > > Subject: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] Howto Cure a Witch...
>> > >
>> > > On 8 February 2011 21:41, Ted Hand <[log in to unmask]>wrote:
>> > >Dave, I'm glad you raisedthat issue. Are you saying that the way
>> a chaosmagician believes
>> > > in a made up god
>> > >
>> > > This is a value statement - or rather it setsitself up as an
>> opposition to this:
>> > >
>> > > is the same thing as theway a true believer believes in his God?
>> > >
>> > > And I'm not sure that the opposition exists, ofnecessity.
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Dr. Janet Goodall
>> > > Research Fellow
>> > > Institute of Education
>> > > University of Warwick
>> > > http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/wie/aboutus/
>> > >
>> > ------- End of Original Message -------
>> >
>> > ------- End of Forwarded Message -------
>> >
>> >
>> ------- End of Original Message -------
>>
> ------- End of Original Message -------
>
>
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