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WELSH-TERMAU-CYMRAEG  January 2011

WELSH-TERMAU-CYMRAEG January 2011

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Subject:

cysylltnod a pam bod/fod

From:

Gwenda Lloyd Wallace <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Discussion of Welsh language technical terminology and vocabulary <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 14 Jan 2011 11:09:24 +0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

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text/plain (1 lines)

Diolch yn fawr am eich eglurhad Berwyn - diddorol iawn. Mi wna i barhau i ddilyn 'Geiriadur Gomer i'r Ifanc' a 'Geiriadur yr Academi'!



Diolch i chi hefyd am dynnu sylw at 'pam eich bod'. Cefais fy nysgu i beidio a defnyddio 'pam bod/fod', ond mi lithrodd hwn i mewn ... Byddwn innau'n falch o gael gwybod a ydy o'n parhau i gael ei ystyried yn anghywir. 



Gwenda



On Thu, 13 Jan 2011 17:00:21 +0000 , Berwyn Jones <[log in to unmask]>  wrote:

>Yn nyddiau'r oes a'r blaidd pan oedd Mary (Jones) a fi'n gydweithwyr, ein

>harfer ni fyddai cynnwys cyplysnod os byddai hynny'n ei gwneud hi'n haws

>darllen y testun, h.y. hepgor y cyplysnod yn achos berfenw byr ar o^l 'ail',

>dyweder. 'Ailddangos', felly, ond 'ail-arddangos' am fod y berfenw'n dair

>sillaf o hyd. Synnwyr y fawd yn hytrach na dilyn rheol gaeth ...

>

>(Byddwn i'n tueddu, o hyd, i roi cyplysnod  yn 'bras-ddarllen' ac yn sicr

>byddai 'llithrddarllen' yn peri i mi 'lithro-ddarllen' drosto heb ei sgimio

>na'i sganio!)

>

>Wedi hynny, daeth pobl fel Bruce a Delyth (ar sail orgraff GPC)  i'n

>cynghori i osgoi defnyddio cyplysnod oni bai bod rhaid. Dyw Bruce a Dafydd

>Glyn ddim yn rhoi cyplysnod ar o^l yr elfen 'ail' yng Ngeiriadur yr Academi

>ond bydd Cysill yn ein cynghori ni i wneud hynny. Pwy ddylwn i ei ddilyn,

>felly? Dau Lywydd er Anrhydedd Cymdeithas y Cyfieithwyr a'm hyfryd

>chwaer-yng-nghyfraith, neu Cysill? Oes angen dweud?!

>

>Mae cystrawen yn sylw Gwenda yn codi cwestiwn sy'n clymu ag edefyn arall,

>sef cywiro cyfraniadau aelodau'r cylch. Barn T J Morgan oedd bod 'pam fod'

>yn anghywir (awgrymodd mai dylanwad 'Pam fod eira'n wyn?' oedd wedi trechu

>arfer Cymry Cymraeg o ddweud 'pam (y) mae/pam wyt ti/pam ydych chi'. Wn i

>ddim a oes unrhyw un wedi ymchwilio i weld a oedd ei farn yn gywir (cofier

>mai '... yn gwybod pam fod ...' yw'r gystrawen, sef ychwanegu 'pam' at

>'gwybod bod/fod').

>

>Ydy 'pam bod/fod' yn anghywir, felly? Fydda i ddim yn ei ddefnyddio ond

>mae'n 'ddatblygiad' mor

>gyffredin nes bod dyn yn tueddu i'w dderbyn bron yn ddigwestiwn erbyn hyn,

>yn enwedig am mai datblygiad brodorol yw ef yn hytrach nag yn un sy'n amlygu

>dylanwad y Saesneg.

>

>Y pwynt rwy'n ceisio'i wneud yw bod rhaid arfer pwyll wrth gywiro'r hyn y

>mae pobl eraill yn ei ysgrifennu (heb ei fai, ...). Bydd hyd yn oed y

>goreuon yn tybio weithiau fod eu mympwy yn rheol go bendant!

>

>Berwyn

>2011/1/13 Gwenda Lloyd Wallace <[log in to unmask]>

>

>> Diolch yn fawr am yr eglurhad Berwyn, ond wnewch chi egluro pam eich bod yn

>> cynnwys y cysylltnod yn bras-ddarllen a llithr-ddarllen os gwelwch yn dda -

>> mi fyddwn i wedi eu sillafu heb y cysylltnod ...

>>

>> On Thu, 13 Jan 2011 13:11:00 +0000 , Berwyn Jones <

>> [log in to unmask]>  wrote:

>> >Gan mai fi fu'n gyfrifol am gyfieithu dogfennau fersiwn 1 a 2 o'r

>> Cwricwlwm

>> >Cenedlaethol, efallai y dylwn i ddweud mai ar sail cyngor rhai o Arolygwyr

>> >Ei Mawrhydi - T Emrys Parry ac Illtyd Lewis, yn fwy na neb - y

>> penderfynwyd

>> >ar y termau a ddefnyddiwyd.

>> >

>> >Mae gen i gopi yn rhywle, rwy'n credu, o nodyn a grynhoai ddyrnaid o'r

>> >termau Cymraeg y dylid eu harddel wrth gyfieithu'r Cwricwlwm Cenedlaethol.

>> >Awdur y nodyn oedd gwas sifil yn Adran Addysg y Swyddfa Gymreig, a chan

>> fod

>> >'copi i T Emrys Parry' arno, rwy'n cymryd mai ffrwyth trafodaeth rhwng y

>> >ddau ohonyn nhw oedd y nodyn hwnnw. Yn sicr, fe ddeddfwyd ynddo mai

>> 'Cyfnod

>> >Allweddol' fyddai 'Key Stage' (yn hytrach na 'Cam Allweddol', mae'n

>> debyg).

>> >

>> >Câi amryw o'r termau fel cipddarllen a llithr-ddarllen eu defnyddio cyn

>> >hynny yn adroddiadau'r Arolygwyr, wrth gwrs, a byddwn i o dro i dro yn

>> troi

>> >at yr 'awduron' i ofyn eu barn am dermau o'r fath. Mae hen fersiwn

>> deipiedig

>> >o'r Eirfa sy gen i ar wefan Cymdithas Cyfieithwyr Cymru yn dangos mai

>> >'bras-ddarllen' oedd fy nghynnig cyntaf am 'to scan', ond 'mod i wedi

>> >ysgrifennu 'llithr-ddarllen' ar ddiwedd y cofnod hwnnw ar o^l trafod gydag

>> >Illtyd Lewis, os cofia i'n iawn.

>> >

>> >Berwyn

>> >

>> >Berwyn

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >2011/1/12 David Bullock <[log in to unmask]>

>> >

>> >> Cwestiwn sy gen i yn hytrach na gwrthwynebiad...

>> >>

>> >> Mae'r ffynhonnell y cyfeiriodd Meleri ati - sef y Cwricwlwm Cenedlaethol

>> -

>> >> yn un gymharol awdurdodol.

>> >>

>> >> Mae dogfennau'r cwricwlwm wedi'u datblygu dros nifer o flynyddoedd gan

>> bobl

>> >> sydd wrthi'n gweithio'n gyson mewn ysgolion a byd addysg. Os wy'n

>> cofio'n

>> >> iawn, Yr Athro Gwyn Thomas gadeiriodd y pwyllgor gwreiddiol, ac mae

>> statws

>> >> dogfennau'r Cwricwlwm Cenedlaethol (yn y Gymraeg fel pwnc, o leiaf) yn

>> >> weddol gadarn. Ac maen nhw'n ddogfennau sy'n cylchredeg yn eang ymhlith

>> >> cynulleidfa Gymraeg eitha cryf, sef athrawon Cymraeg.

>> >>

>> >> A'r cwestiwn felly yw hyn: oes yna reswm digon da i wrthod cynsail fel

>> hyn?

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> -----Neges Wreiddiol/Original Message-----

>> >> From: Discussion of Welsh language technical terminology and vocabulary

>> >> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Ar ran/On Behalf Of Gwenda

>> >> Lloyd Wallace

>> >> Sent: 12 Ionawr 2011 16:22

>> >> To: [log in to unmask]

>> >> Subject: Re: ATB/RE: skim reading a scan reading

>> >>

>> >> >>Yn cytuno'n llwyr a chi Geraint. Ond gan fod cipddarllen (y Cwricwlwm

>> >> Cenedlaethol) a brasddarllen (Geiriadur yr Academi) ill dau yn golygu

>> skim

>> >> reading, a'r awgrym gan Carolyn (diolch!) o brysddarllen am scan reading

>> mor

>> >> debyg i brasddarllen, dw i am ddefnyddio cipddarllen am skim reading (dw

>> i

>> >> bron iawn a drysu yma ... ). I grynhoi, er fy mwyn fy hun yn gymaint a

>> phawb

>> >> arall!:

>> >> >

>> >> >skim reading = cipddarllen; scan reading = brysddarllen; detailed

>> reading

>> >> = darllen manwl

>> >> >

>> >> >Unrhyw wrthwynebiad?

>> >> >>

>> >> >>Gwenda

>> >> >>

>> >> >>Wed, 12 Jan 2011 15:45:04 -0000 , Geraint Lovgreen <

>> >> [log in to unmask]>  wrote:

>> >> >>>hm - i mi mae cipddarllen (un gair, siawns) yn olreit ond dwi ddim yn

>> >> hoffi

>> >> >>>'llithrddarllen' nac yn meddwl ei fod yn debyg o ennill ei blwyf.

>> Mae'n

>> >> >>>anodd ei ddweud, yn un peth!

>> >> >>>

>> >> >>>Mae brasddarllen yn air llawer gwell.

>> >> >>>

>> >> >>>Mae darllen manwl yn iawn.

>> >> >>>

>> >> >>>Geraint

>> >> >>>

>> >> >>>----- Original Message -----

>> >> >>>From: "Meleri H. Hughes" <[log in to unmask]>

>> >> >>>To: <[log in to unmask]>

>> >> >>>Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 3:21 PM

>> >> >>>Subject: ATB/RE: skim reading a scan reading

>> >> >>>

>> >> >>>

>> >> >>>> Dyma'r termau a ddefnyddir yn y Cwricwlwm Cenedlaethol i ysgolion:

>> >> >>>> Skim - cip ddarllen

>> >> >>>> Scan - llithr ddarllen

>> >> >>>> Detailed reading - darllen yn fanwl

>> >> >>>>

>> >> >>>> Meleri

>> >> >>>>

>> >> >>>>

>> >> >>>>

>> >> >>>> -----Neges Wreiddiol/Original Message-----

>> >> >>>> From: Discussion of Welsh language technical terminology and

>> >> vocabulary

>> >> >>>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Ar ran/On Behalf Of

>> >> Gwenda

>> >> >>>> Lloyd Wallace

>> >> >>>> Sent: 12 January 2011 15:15

>> >> >>>> To: [log in to unmask]

>> >> >>>> Subject: skim reading a scan reading

>> >> >>>>

>> >> >>>>>Dw i'n cyfieithu disgrifiadau ar ffyrdd gwahanol o ddarllen, sef

>> 'skim

>> >> >>>>>reading', 'scan reading' a 'detailed reading'. Mae Geiriadur yr

>> >> Academi yn

>> >> >>>>>rhoi 'brasddarllen' am skim reading, a 'darllen manwl' fyddwn i'n

>> ei

>> >> >>>>>ddefnyddio am detailed reading. A fyddai 'sganddarllen' yn iawn am

>> >> 'scan

>> >> >>>>>reading' neu a ddylwn i ddefnyddio 'bwrw golwg'?

>> >> >>>>>

>> >> >>>>>Diolch yn fawr.

>> >> >>>>>Gwenda

>> >> >>>>>--

>> >> >>>>>

>> >> >>>>>

>> >> >>>>>Gwenda Lloyd Wallace

>> >> >>>>>Cyfieithydd/Translator

>> >> >>>>>Troed-y-rhiw

>> >> >>>>>Cefn-llwyd

>> >> >>>>>Aberystwyth

>> >> >>>>>Ceredigion

>> >> >>>>>Cymru/Wales

>> >> >>>>>SY23 3HX

>> >> >>>>>

>> >> >>>>>Ffon/Tel: 01970 880817

>> >> >>>> --

>> >> >>>>

>> >> >>>>

>> >> >>>> Gwenda Lloyd Wallace

>> >> >>>> Cyfieithydd/Translator

>> >> >>>> Troed-y-rhiw

>> >> >>>> Cefn-llwyd

>> >> >>>> Aberystwyth

>> >> >>>> Ceredigion

>> >> >>>> Cymru/Wales

>> >> >>>> SY23 3HX

>> >> >>>>

>> >> >>>> Ffon/Tel: 01970 880817

>> >> >>>>

>> >> >>>>

>> >> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------

>> >> >>>> Mae'r e-bost hwn ac unrhyw atodiad iddo yn gyfrinachol ac fe'i

>> >> bwriedir ar

>> >> >>>> gyfer y sawl a enwir arno yn unig. Gall gynnwys gwybodaeth

>> >> freintiedig. Os

>> >> >>>> yw wedi eich cyrraedd trwy gamgymeriad ni ellwch ei gopio, ei

>> >> ddosbarthu

>> >> >>>> na'i ddangos i unrhyw un arall a dylech gysylltu �'r anfonwr ar

>> >> unwaith.

>> >> >>>> Mae unrhyw gynnwys nad yw'n ymwneud � busnes swyddogol y corff sy'n

>> >> anfon

>> >> >>>> yr e-bost yn bersonol i'r awdur.

>> >> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------

>> >> >>>> This email and any attachments are confidential and intended for

>> the

>> >> named

>> >> >>>> recipient only. The content may contain privileged information. If

>> it

>> >> has

>> >> >>>> reached you by mistake, you should not copy, distribute or show the

>> >> >>>> content to anyone but should contact the sender at once.

>> >> >>>> Any content that is not pertinent to the official business of the

>> >> >>>> organisation is personal to the author.

>> >> >>>> -------------------------------------------------------------

>> >> >>>> Arbedwch bapur, ynni ac arian - Peidiwch argraffu'r neges yma oni

>> bai

>> >> ei

>> >> >>>> bod yn hollol angenrheidiol.

>> >> >>>> Save paper, energy and money - Do not print this message unless it

>> is

>> >> >>>> absolutely necessary.

>> >> >>>>

>> >> >>>>

>> >> >>

>> >> >>

>> >>

>> >> --

>> >>

>> >>

>> >> Gwenda Lloyd Wallace

>> >> Cyfieithydd/Translator

>> >> Troed-y-rhiw

>> >> Cefn-llwyd

>> >> Aberystwyth

>> >> Ceredigion

>> >> Cymru/Wales

>> >> SY23 3HX

>> >>

>> >> Ffon/Tel: 01970 880817

>> >>

>>

>>

>>

>> --

>>

>>

>> Gwenda Lloyd Wallace

>> Cyfieithydd/Translator

>> Troed-y-rhiw

>> Cefn-llwyd

>> Aberystwyth

>> Ceredigion

>> Cymru/Wales

>> SY23 3HX

>>

>> Ffon/Tel: 01970 880817

>>







-- 





Gwenda Lloyd Wallace

Cyfieithydd/Translator

Troed-y-rhiw

Cefn-llwyd

Aberystwyth

Ceredigion

Cymru/Wales

SY23 3HX



Ffon/Tel: 01970 880817

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