PS: Does anyone know how many brains were used by von Economo? I've forgotten and can't find the info...
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Von: Bartsch, Andreas
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 20. Januar 2011 15:27
An: FSL - FMRIB's Software Library
Betreff: AW: [FSL] AW: [FSL] creating ROIs based on brodmann map
Sure - the Juelich project is a substantial step forwards! The only thing is that not all areas are covered yet. BA11 - the area that started off the thread, for example, isn't. W/r to the observer (in)dependency: sometimes observer knowledge is not to the bad but, of course, we'd strive for 'objectivity'...
Cheers-
Andreas
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Von: FSL - FMRIB's Software Library [[log in to unmask]] im Auftrag von Cornelius Werner [[log in to unmask]]
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 20. Januar 2011 15:11
An: [log in to unmask]
Betreff: Re: [FSL] AW: [FSL] creating ROIs based on brodmann map
You win :-)
BTW: 10 brains is correct for the Juelich brains. In my opinion
however, they do have an advantage over von Economo/Koskinas and
Brodmann: area borders are drawn based on an observer-independent
algorithm, e.g. computer-based border detection on cytoarchitectonic
features (layer characteristics), plus: they are in FSL :-))
Cheers,
Cornelius
On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 10:31 AM, Andreas Bartsch
<[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> In one human brain. But Brodmann included brains of various other species. Also he analyzed the cytoarcitectonics on the surface AND down the sulci (see, for example, his figs. 87 & 88), only the maps were roughly drawn on the surface. However, there is some evidence (Sanides, Monographien aus dem Gesamtgebiet der Neurologie und Psychiatrie, Heft 98, 1962; unfortunately just in German) that at least some sulci are, to an appreciable extent, relevant for the transitions.
> Von Economos maps contain more detail, are based on more brains and are better documented. See
> http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/Katalogteile/isbn3_8055/_82/_89/atlas_01.pdf
> to get an impression.
> The Juelich probabilistic labels - even though continuously expanded - are also covering only a selection of areas and are based on a limited number of brains (around 10, as far as I remember).
> Last but not least - don't forget about myeloarchitectonics (Flechsig, Vogt), and remember MT+ (http://cercor.oxfordjournals.org/content/3/2/79.abstract), for example. BA11, however, is not going to be functionally distinct;)
> Cheers-
> Andreas
>
> ________________________________________
> Von: FSL - FMRIB's Software Library [[log in to unmask]] im Auftrag von Cornelius Werner [[log in to unmask]]
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 20. Januar 2011 09:53
> An: [log in to unmask]
> Betreff: Re: [FSL] creating ROIs based on brodmann map
>
> Hi,
>
> I just want to point out something you probably know already - BA11
> does not equal orbitofrontal gyrus. The Brodmann maps were described
> in the early 20th century on one brain only and designate
> cytoarchitectonically distinct areas on the cortical surface (not the
> sulci!) of this single brain. They do not necessarily correlate with
> gyral anatomy and certainly are subject to a significant
> inter-individual variability. If you are interested in
> cytoarchitectonic-functional correlations, use the Juelich histo-maps
> built into FSL instead (see the relevant literature (Zilles, Amunts,
> Eickhoff etc.) for the reasons why). If you are primarily interested
> increating anatomical ROIs (which in itself might or might not be a
> good idea), why not use the built-in anatomical atlases?
>
> Best regards,
> Cornelius
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 12:13 AM, Dianne Patterson
> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> I've found this useful:
>> http://www.bion.de/index.php?title=MARINA&lang=eng
>> Just check the left-right flip as it goes wrong for me in the conversion to
>> fsl, so I have to flip it and check it.
>> -Dianne
>> P.S.
>> I have also noticed that there is something unsatisfactory about the
>> talairach atlas in fsl.
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 12:54 PM, Saeideh Bakhshi <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello FSL experts,
>>>
>>> I am trying to locate some brodmann areas using FSL and saving them as
>>> masks, the problem is when I use Talairach atlas for a brodmann area
>>> such as Orbital Frontal Gyrus (BA11) or similar areas, it renders a
>>> huge area of the brain. Is this atlas usable on MNI space?
>>> Do you have suggestions for a simple mapping of brodmann areas or AAL
>>> that I can use in FSL?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Saeideh
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Dianne Patterson, Ph.D.
>> [log in to unmask]
>> University of Arizona
>> SLHS 314
>> 621-9877
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Dr. med. Cornelius J. Werner
>
> Department of Neurology
> RWTH Aachen University
> Pauwelsstr. 30
> 52074 Aachen
> Germany
>
> Institute of Neuroscience and Medicine
> MR Physics - INM4
> Research Centre Juelich
> 52425 Juelich
> Germany
>
> ::: Please encrypt confidential data :::
--
Dr. med. Cornelius J. Werner
Department of Neurology
RWTH Aachen University
Pauwelsstr. 30
52074 Aachen
Germany
Institute of Neuroscience and Medicine
MR Physics - INM4
Research Centre Juelich
52425 Juelich
Germany
::: Please encrypt confidential data :::
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