Hello Rosemary

Yes, I know of some of the challenges you have faced at RGU to ensure an OH
focused programme. It is great that you work closely with your mental health
team. 

Subscribers may not know that developing a programme which prepares OHNs is
a far from simple task and often we are unable to include the content we
would like, or have to include content we do not think is essential. This
results from a variety of influences including what the university will
support. To illustrate: the programme we now offer at London South Bank
University started at the RCN Institute of Advanced Nursing Education
(RCNIAE). in the early to mid 1990's the RCNIAE were the first institution
to develop a BSc (Hons) in OH Nursing. I wanted to include a whole unit on
workplace mental health. My head of department would not allow us to do so -
their rationale: I am not an RMN. As they had no understanding of OH they
could not get their head around (no pun intended) that our role is not to
diagnose nor treat  mental illness but we can do a lot to promote an
environment which reduces the risk of work associated mental ill-health
supports people with mental health problems.

 The ENB required shared learning with other community practitioners. The OH
programme were therefore required to share units with the Nurse Practitioner
(NP) programme. Our HOD insisted on us including a unit on pharmacology
because that was what the NPs needed and the ENB at that time required a
certain proportion of core material taught with other primary care nurses.
No amount of discussion or persuasion was successful. There are some battles
you have to accept that you will never win, so we reluctantly included the
unit on pharmacology. I knew that feedback from stakeholders would lead to a
rethink. Sure enough we got that feedback and as soon as possible we removed
the pharmacology unit from the programme. Unfortunately, we were unable to
include a complete unit on mental health but did manage to thread mental
health through a few units.

On a more topical note: how deep is the snow in Aberdeen - the snow here
brings back memories of my trip up there last February and they closed the
airport, re-opened it then closed it again whilst we were sitting on the
runway waiting to take off.

Anne 
Anne Harriss
Course Director
LONDON SOUTH BANK UNIVERSITY


On 03/12/2010 08:06, "Rosemary Shaw (fns)" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Finding your discussions very interesting at the moment Anne, as we at RGU as
> you know have had these thoughts concerning working with relavent partners for
> a long time.
> We also work closely with our mental health team and yes they have so much to
> offer OHA,s.
> Take care
> Rosemary.
> 
> ________________________________________
> From: [log in to unmask] [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
> [log in to unmask] [[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: 02 December 2010 16:37
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] Public Health strategy document
> 
> The site is but my report isn't on there yet. When I have got a minute I
> will see if I can send you a link. Just working on a document which has to
> be finished by 5.00pm so it will take me some time.
> 
> Anne
> 
> 
> On 02/12/2010 15:35, "Catherine Mackay" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 
>> Dear Ann
>> 
>> Unable to source the Council for Work and Health - is it live?
>> 
>> Many thanks
>> 
>> Catherine
>>> HI Barry
>>> 
>>> I had an email from Diana Kloss a couple of weeks ago and she is
>>> authorising
>>> a link to my report on the Council's web site.
>>> 
>>> I did include other practitioners, I just didn't include them all in my
>>> email. Not all HEIs have OH&S and Hygiene programmes so shared learning
>>> with
>>> those practitioners may be more difficult to arrange. As far as community
>>> mental health practitioners are concerned - we would learn so much from
>>> them.
>>> 
>>> Our OH course was the first to accept RMNs who were not also RGN
>>> qualified.
>>> My experience to date is that RMNs who are not dual qualified find the OH
>>> course challenging but they do succeed and have so much to offer their
>>> employers.
>>> 
>>> Best
>>> 
>>> Anne
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 02/12/2010 14:32, "Wilkes, Barry" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Anne
>>>> 
>>>> Looking forward to seeing your report. Your views on some form of
>>>> advanced practitioner seems to me to be a very sensible recommendation.
>>>> I suppose I would also add to the list you mentioned of sharing learning
>>>> with H&S Practitioners; hygienists; environmental health officers  etc.
>>>> I think it is about which disciplines are closest in terms of subject
>>>> matter and approach and who as a practitioner you are most likely to
>>>> work with. What we have most in common is a core set of legislation, the
>>>> principles of risk assessment and control and the need for an
>>>> understanding of interventions and working within workplaces.
>>>> 
>>>> Yes there is certainly is a great deal of overlap with other community
>>>> specialists but I tend to see public health/epidemiology as a core
>>>> discipline which as your rightly say OH has be doing in its very
>>>> infancy) which we share with all health professions. I could quite
>>>> easily see OHN's having as much in common with community mental health
>>>> nurses as they do with HV's or school nurses.
>>>> 
>>>> For those of us in OH education this is proving to be interesting times
>>>> and changing!
>>>> 
>>>> Regards
>>>> 
>>>> Barry
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Barry Wilkes
>>>> Senior Teaching Fellow in Occupational Health and Safety
>>>> Warwick Medical School (A-026)
>>>> University of Warwick
>>>> Gibbet Hill Campus
>>>> Coventry
>>>> CV4 7AL
>>>> Tel: 02476 150457
>>>> Fax: 0276 574893
>>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
>>>> Behalf Of [log in to unmask]
>>>> Sent: 02 December 2010 14:17
>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>> Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] Public Health strategy document
>>>> 
>>>> Dear Anna & List
>>>> 
>>>> I was asked to work on a project for the Council for Work and Health. I
>>>> lead
>>>> a group which included OH educators senior OHN representatives of the
>>>> RCN
>>>> and AOHNP to consider the challenges of preparing competent OHN
>>>> practitioners. The report, or possibly an abridged version, will
>>>> eventually
>>>> be available on the Council for Work and Health. One of the
>>>> recommendations
>>>> of that report was that shared learning with OTs, Physios, managers, OH
>>>> physicians etc (this is not an exclusive list) may serve the  needs of
>>>> OH
>>>> practice more effectively than sharing learning with health visitors
>>>> (HV)
>>>> and School Nurses (SN)d. This was then picked up by the Chartered
>>>> Society of
>>>> Physios who also endorse amending their curriculum to include elements
>>>> of
>>>> shared learning.
>>>> 
>>>> I await being shot  down in flames, but, I wonder if sometimes shared
>>>> learning with HVs is of more benefit to those professionals than it is
>>>> to
>>>> OHNs. We recently held a practice teacher study day which was attended
>>>> by
>>>> practice teachers for OH, HV, SN students. One of the practice teachers
>>>> is
>>>> very innovative in her practice and we invited her to give an overview
>>>> of
>>>> how OHNs are involved in attendance management. She gave an excellent
>>>> presentation which included her involvement in policy development,
>>>> getting
>>>> GPs interested in working with OH by highlighting job demands and the
>>>> input
>>>> of OH in the development of back to work recovery programmes. The OH
>>>> practice teachers were very impressed - I overheard HV practice teachers
>>>> muttering that all OH do is  bully sick employees back to work. She, and
>>>> a
>>>> number of the other practitioners in the audience had completely missed
>>>> the
>>>> point. The words horses, water and drink sprang to mind. An audience
>>>> including physios, OT's and OH Physicians would have had a much better
>>>> appreciation of the issues and working together helps the client and the
>>>> organisation alike.
>>>> 
>>>> We have always practiced public health - think back to Philippa
>>>> Flowerday at
>>>> Colemans. Why then, when the public health register was first considered
>>>> were  HVs the only specialists eligible to register.    There has been
>>>> much
>>>> discussion about the benefits or not of the SCPHN register. I did the
>>>> mapping exercise for the NMC confirming that the learning outcomes for
>>>> OH
>>>> programmes matched the public health competencies. I think registration
>>>> on
>>>> an additional part of the register can only be a benefit.  Perhaps
>>>> registration as an Advanced Practitioner may be a better way forward.
>>>> 
>>>> Anne
>>>> 
>>>> Anne Harriss
>>>> Course Director
>>>> LONDON SOUTH BANK UNIVERSITY
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 02/12/2010 13:07, "Anna" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Hi
>>>>> 
>>>>> Absolutely, Barry re getting to the heart of what is the role of OHAs,
>>>> see
>>>>> OH needs clear communication, Occupational Health, March, 2010. I
>>>> believe
>>>>> the profession needs to spend time working on this. At this moment I
>>>> feel as
>>>>> though we do need to move away from part 3 of the register and be
>>>> registered
>>>>> as a unique and distict group. What ever we do we have to develop a
>>>> strong
>>>>> clear voice to describe our contribution to public health and
>>>> business. Our
>>>>> message needs to communicate the tangible outcomes of our work with
>>>>> businesses. I also believe that we should not stand alone, but need to
>>>> bring
>>>>> ourselves closer to others in similar/overlapping work such as
>>>> occupational
>>>>> psychologists, specialists in organisational culture, human resources,
>>>>> ergonomists, etc that way the proactive elements of our work maybe
>>>>> recognised a bit more easily and it would be clearer about how we
>>>> contribute
>>>>> to public heatlh esp. when relating to the new PH strategy focus on
>>>>> wellbeing, self-confidence, resilience, the impact of environments and
>>>>> communities on individuals. We all know that the workplace is a
>>>> community
>>>>> and part of our role as OHAs is to help make that community one which
>>>>> nurtures, engages, and encourages it's members/employees.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I feel that we are small group whose voice is not really heard or
>>>> understood
>>>>> in the current position. Join with others who are similar in having a
>>>> public
>>>>> health and business role to have a stronger voice.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hope that is not too controversial
>>>>> 
>>>>> Anna Harrington Health and Wellbeing at Work Specialist
>>>>> SCPHN (Occ Health)
>>>>> www.harringtonenterprises.co.uk
>>>>> 07816212836
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Wilkes, Barry" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 9:25 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] Public Health strategy document
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> All
>>>>> 
>>>>> At the risk of sound 'Me Too; we also include culture on our course at
>>>>> Warwick. The problem all programmes have though is 'how much should we
>>>>> include?'. I think your comments Anna are really interesting as they
>>>> go
>>>>> to the heart of the role and future of occupational health and I am
>>>>> saying this as a non-OHN (my background is H&S and we are having
>>>> similar
>>>>> dilemmas).
>>>>> 
>>>>> To me the biggest 'public health' inequality we face is the lack of
>>>>> access to OH by the vast majority of the working population;
>>>>> particularly those in smaller companies. I suppose to tackle this we
>>>>> have at least three options.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 1. 'Force' companies to get access to OH based on their degree of risk
>>>>> rather than their size. The law is already there. This could be
>>>> achieved
>>>>> through a  greater degree of enforcement. After all relatively few
>>>> firms
>>>>> complain about Reg 7 of the Management Regulations requiring H&S
>>>>> assistance and this can be stretched to OH assistance (the guidance
>>>>> infers this anyway). With this option though you will probably only
>>>> get
>>>>> minimum legal standard. Other option include levy -based provision
>>>> e.g.
>>>>> construction industry and by making it a requirement of public
>>>> liability
>>>>> insurance as it is in some Euro countries.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 2. A more palatable option might be to put a greater emphasis (both in
>>>>> education and practice) in raising the awareness of business and
>>>>> non-specialists of the role and benefits of OH. This is both giving
>>>>> OHA's the skills to influence business and providing awareness and
>>>>> education of OH to non-specialists. Yes we need to be careful how we
>>>> do
>>>>> this but this should not stop us giving managers and employers the
>>>>> skills and knowledge they need to manage their employees.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 3. The biggest of all the inequalities though, to me, is the lack of
>>>>> access to OH through primary care. Yes I know there are some excellent
>>>>> pilot projects like the 'fit for work programmes' but to be honest
>>>> these
>>>>> 'pilots' have been going on for at least 15 years in different forms
>>>> in
>>>>> places like Sheffield and Lanark to my knowledge. When are they going
>>>> to
>>>>> move out of pilot?
>>>>> 
>>>>> To me these point also touch on the future role of OHA's anyway. There
>>>>> is such a blurring of boundaries between professions; particularly
>>>> case
>>>>> managers; disability advisers; H&S practitioners; Occ. Hygienists;
>>>>> ergonomists among many others that the distinct role and benefits of
>>>> OH
>>>>> needs to be defined and communicated.
>>>>> 
>>>>> This last point then leads onto the overlap between OH and the other
>>>>> 'public health' disciplines covered by Part III of the register. The
>>>>> review of Part III; I think should prove very interesting; not least
>>>>> whether OHA's move closer to those other disciplines or further away.
>>>> I
>>>>> think the transfer of public health generally away from the NHS and
>>>> into
>>>>> the Local Authorities and closer to disciplines such as Environmental
>>>>> Health again add a real opportunity for OH.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Any thoughts?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Barry
>>>>> 
>>>>> Barry Wilkes
>>>>> Senior Teaching Fellow in Occupational Health and Safety
>>>>> Warwick Medical School (A-026)
>>>>> University of Warwick
>>>>> Gibbet Hill Campus
>>>>> Coventry
>>>>> CV4 7AL
>>>>> Tel: 02476 150457
>>>>> Fax: 0276 574893
>>>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
>>>>> Behalf Of Anna
>>>>> Sent: 01 December 2010 12:40
>>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>> Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] Public Health strategy document
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thats great to hear, so what more can be done to make OHA involvement
>>>> in
>>>>> 
>>>>> organisational culture a mainstream and accepted part of our role in
>>>> the
>>>>> 
>>>>> work place?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Anna
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Smolen, Mary" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 12:17 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] Public Health strategy document
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> And so does LSBU!!
>>>>> 
>>>>> Mary Smolen
>>>>> Staff Nurse
>>>>> Occupational Health Department
>>>>> Royal Bournemouth Hospital
>>>>> Castle Lane East
>>>>> Bournemouth
>>>>> BH7 7DW
>>>>> 
>>>>> Tel:  01202 704215
>>>>> Fax:  01202 704513
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> This message may contain information that is privileged or
>>>> confidential.
>>>>> It is intended for the addressee(s) only and should not be forwarded
>>>> or
>>>>> copied to any third party without the consent of the sender.  If you
>>>>> received this in error please contact the sender and destroy the
>>>>> message.
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
>>>>> Behalf Of Jim Mills
>>>>> Sent: 01 December 2010 10:49
>>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>> Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] Public Health strategy document
>>>>> 
>>>>> I can vouch for that!
>>>>> Sent from my BlackBerry(r) wireless device
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From:         "Rosemary Shaw (fns)" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>> Sender:       [log in to unmask]
>>>>> Date:         Wed, 1 Dec 2010 10:37:09
>>>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>> Reply-To:     Occupational Health mailing list
>>>>> <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] Public Health strategy document
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi Anna,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I run the Occupational Health Practice Course at Robert Gordon
>>>>> University in Aberdeen and I certainly have content in the curriculum
>>>>> regarding organisational culture and the effect that can have on the
>>>>> health of the workforce.
>>>>> Rosemary
>>>>> 
>>>>> ________________________________________
>>>>> From: [log in to unmask] [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf
>>>> Of
>>>>> Anna [[log in to unmask]]
>>>>> Sent: 01 December 2010 10:22
>>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>> Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] Public Health strategy document
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi
>>>>> 
>>>>> This document is very interesting and does mark a new direction for
>>>>> Public
>>>>> Health in this country. It has businesses and workplaces threaded
>>>>> throughout
>>>>> the document and in specific paragraphs. It places a commitment
>>>> towards
>>>>> activities that are preventative, focus on wellbeing, self-esteem,
>>>>> confidence and resilience. It states that it wants to "unleash"
>>>>> employers
>>>>> potential as champions of public health, whilst acknowledging that it
>>>>> does
>>>>> need to bring real  and demonstrable ROI. It states that 70% of the
>>>>> burden
>>>>> of long-standing ill-health is due to MSD, MH and circulation. I think
>>>>> that
>>>>> this document supports and directs OH professionals to work with
>>>>> businesses
>>>>> proactivley to create workpalce cultures that improve the health and
>>>>> wellbeing, rather than just prevent and manage ill-health. I think it
>>>> is
>>>>> about working with employers to engage and unleash the potential in
>>>> the
>>>>> workforce by affecting the management behaviour. There is therfore a
>>>>> need
>>>>> for OH professionals to look at themselves to consider what can my
>>>> role
>>>>> be,
>>>>> do I need more support/training/guidance to be able to have an affect?
>>>>> How
>>>>> many OHAs training included organisational culture and the affects it
>>>>> has on
>>>>> the workforce, I am assuming not many, is this something that needs to
>>>>> be in
>>>>> the education of future OHAs?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Anna
>>>>> 
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 9:13 AM
>>>>> Subject: [OCC-HEALTH] Public Health strategy document
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Dear List
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The Government Strategy for Public Health was published yesterday.
>>>>>> Workplace
>>>>>> health management gets a mention, but more could have been included.
>>>> I
>>>>>> suspect the government don't want to be more forceful in relation to
>>>>>> workplace heath management due to the financial implications on
>>>>>> businesses.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Suggest it is worth looking at this document and then the document I
>>>>>> circulated last week from the DWP.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I was at a meeting last week where our Dean highlighted the
>>>>> implications
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> public spending cuts on our, and other, universities. It was obvious
>>>>> that
>>>>>> more trainee HVs would be required and therefore we needed to factor
>>>>> that
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> to our plans. This document put that discussion into perspective as
>>>>> this
>>>>>> document indicates that there will be an increased requirement for
>>>>> HVs.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Happy reading
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Anne Harriss
>>>>>> Course Director
>>>>>> London South Bank University
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ********************************
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>>>>>> 
>>>>>> OCC-HEALTH ARCHIVES:
>>>>>> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/occ-health.html
>>>>>> 
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>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> ********************************
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>>>>> 
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>>>>> 
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>>>>> Robert Gordon University is The Sunday Times Scottish University of
>>>> the
>>>>> Year 2011
>>>>> 
>>>>> Robert Gordon University, a Scottish charity registered under charity
>>>>> number SC 013781.
>>>>> 
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>>>>> not an intended recipient then please promptly delete this e-mail and
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>> 
>> 
>> Catherine Mackay
>> Work & Health Consultant
>> MSc(Work Psychol.)Grad.IOSH
>> c.  +44(0)7956439163
>> l:  +44(0)1314454448
>> e:  [log in to unmask]
>> w:  cmkworkandhealth.com(under reconstruction)
>> http://www.mentalhealth.org.uk/publications/?entryid5=67533
>> 
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> 
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