Hi Sarah, Nathaniel, Scott and CRUMB_ers,
of course ... we weren't thinking of hijacking, but rather injecting an interesting 'case' scenario into that discussion. It's often a fairly open question of how to adequately transport the essence of a work that is not at all meant to be accessed simultaneously by 'live' masses. A project such as 'wikipedia art' which in itself is manifested in the form of a discussion based on an action past brings together many of the strands in this discussion, and as part of the 'life' of the project it seems a great idea with potential to launch into the laps of the CRUMB list. Ultimately we want people to reflect on the mechanisms of open systems and the way in which wikipedia works - and the structures therein which most users take for granted. These are suppositions and scenarios which 'wikipedia art' turns inside out. There are numerous ways in which this can be manifested at the festival, and if we add the point as to 'what role the Transmediale curators are taking', I would say this is now in the realm of a collaborative process, which we will also give feedback on together with the artists - our primary constraints being budget and the architectonics of the space we have available ... which are inevitably also always part of any curatorial decision. If we get people in to the space of the festival and the project, and then out and beyond the festival with question marks and burning issues related to art, creative interventionism and wikipedia, then we already have a great outcome that the artists can re-inject into their project. The question of precedent is also clearly in the mix, but I think the context and opportunity of the festival can allow for other forms of manifestation.
cheers,
Stephen
On 15.11.2010, at 10:52, Sarah Cook wrote:
> Hi Nathaniel and all
>
> Thanks for hijacking this month's ongoing discussion about jury systems online with a project we can all sink our teeth into - using the CRUMB list as a kind of crowdsourcing sample for your Wikipedia Art project is a fun idea.
>
> In reply to your newly posted rules:
>
> rule number 3: I have been a member from the beginning of CRUMB, ten years now.
>
> rule number 1 and rule number 4: I think that the idea of citing precedent for ideas is good, but whether or not it has been seen in Berlin will be a very hard criteria for most CRUMB list users to meet as not all of them live in Berlin ;-) Therefore we may have to ask Andreas or Axel or other Berliners on the list to weigh in.
>
> rule number 2: I think it would be good to add to the list of rules what role the Transmediale curators are taking (like you, can they only count the ideas they like?)
>
> I think it would also be good, in terms of curatorial research, to have more of a list of precedents for previous exhibitions of WikipediaArt. You mentioned
> that you have had:
> "re-mixes of Wikipedia Art exhibited online as part of the Venice Biennale <http://wikipediaart.org/remixes/>, and hired actors to perform a scripted re-mix/mash-up of the Wikipedia Art deletion debate with Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?, at a gallery in New York."
> Are these the only two presentations to date? Were they successful or lacking? (I can't imagine a curator exhibiting anything without knowing something about how it has been exhibited before, if indeed it has, hence my request for more info here)
>
> My inclination is to continue to mine the thread of hiring actors to reenact the deletion debate, whether remixed with another text or not (rule number 1: exhibition precedent: the one you mention).
> Perhaps the other text with which it is remixed could be a text-based work of art from the pre-Internet age (such as a Bruce Nauman Instruction piece... though we could draw up a list which we could vote on) or a text-based work from the Internet age (Douglas Davis's World's Longest Sentence springs to mind, with the same possibility of having a list of suggestions we could vote on).
>
> Then we could have a debate about how to document and exhibit the reenactment of the debate.
>
> That's all from me for now; CRUMB list lurkers - do chime in!
> Sarah
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 12 Nov 2010, at 13:10, Nathaniel Stern wrote:
>
>> Hahaha. What a way to start the conversation, Andreas - thanks!
>>
>> Perhaps we should start a list of rules then? For example:
>>
>> 1. All ideas must cite precedented use in a museum or public gallery, but can't have been in Berlin.
>> 2. Only votes that I like will be counted.
>> 3. The above are null and void if you hang about for long enough. While curatorial experience is not a requirement, it's recommended you start all emails by stating how long you have been a member of CRUMB.
>> 4. You may add to, or delete from, this list if I say so.
>>
>> Onward and upward!
>>
>> nathaniel
>> http://nathanielstern.com
>>
>>
>>
>> On Nov 12, 2010, at 3:16 AM, Andreas Broeckmann wrote:
>>
>>> At 19:15 Uhr -0600 11.11.2010, Nathaniel Stern wrote:
>>>> For Transmediale, we've proposed another community-based collaboration. Specifically, we said we'd ask the members of the CRUMB list-serv for recommendations on how to "exhibit" our work. We are asking for your expertise and ideas. The installation and exhibition will be decided as a collaboration between you, us, and the Transmediale folks: Syelle Hase <[log in to unmask]> and Stephen Kovats <[log in to unmask]>. We'll be keeping records of this discussion as well, in case it is to become part of the work. There are some space and other resource limitations, as always, but we're very open to anything feasible within that scope. Consensus on the best way forward is not necessary, and any and all ideas and viewpoints are welcome. We hope you want to be involved, and to come up with some fantastic ways of presenting our work.
>>>
>>>
>>> dear nathaniel,
>>>
>>> great proposal. but if it is really and genuinely *Wikipedia* Art, shouldn't there be some dictatorial idiosyncracies and pseudo-objective criteria factored into the selection process? otherwise it may qualify, eventually, for being registered on "Wikipedia", without being truly "in the spirit of"?
>>>
>>> best regards,
>>> -a
artistic director
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