I do know what you mean Richard. It is genuinely exhausting and
dis-spiriting that we need to be critical all the time (and I really do
mean that). If only someone would just hurry up and get rid of
capitalism for us - things would be so much easier then!
I doubt we'll hear much on here from service users of WRAP either. But
as you suggest, if we did they might express a range of views: some
perhaps positive, some perhaps observing that recovery was once indeed
radical, but that its liberatory potentials were largely neutralised
precisely at the moment that well-meaning professionals stepped in.
Surely both the persistence of capitalism, and the likely co-existence
of such contradictory views, together simply *sharpen* the need for
critique, rather than negate it?
J.
On 13/10/2010 10:41, richard pemberton wrote:
> I understand the need to protect a critical space and am starting to
> enjoy its rather heavy policing but it becomes an absurd silo if it isnt
> able to see anything of merit or value in other world views?
> There is on facebook an anitrecovery group, made up of survivors who
> have been underwhelmed by the professional colonisation of recovery.
> Recovery has come from the user/survivor movement and wrap is one of its
> manifestations. If practiced well it shifts power away from the
> professionals to the person who isnt having a great time?
> This list seems to be dominated by academics, retired therapists, and
> practicing professionals? So i guess we wont be hearing from people who
> use wrap.
> Richard
>
> On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 9:42 AM, Tim Anstiss <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>
> Mark. You seem to be saying the opposite. One view is people are
> told they are responsible, and the other view is that their autonomy
> is completely undermined or removed.
>
> Confused of Slough.
> Sent using BlackBerry® from Orange
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Rapley <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> Sender: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List
> <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 09:33:43
> To: <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> Reply-To: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List
> <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] Wellness Recovery Action Plan (WRAP)
>
> Indeed. They totally obliterate any sense that miserable people may be
> agentic human actors in their own right.
>
> Mark Rapley, PhD,
> Professor of Clinical Psychology,
> Programme Director - Doctoral Degree in Clinical Psychology,
> School of Psychology,
> The University of East London,
> Stratford Campus,
> Water Lane,
> London, E15 4LZ,
> U.K.
>
> Tel: +44 (0)208 223 6392 (Direct)
> Tel: +44 (0)208 223 4567 (Messages)
> Tel: +44 (0)7951 908409 (Mobile)
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List on behalf of John
> Cromby
> Sent: Wed 10/13/2010 09:16
> To: [log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] Wellness Recovery Action Plan (WRAP)
>
> For all their many problems, at least biomedical interventions don't
> make victims responsible for removing their own misery: WRAP and related
> interventions do.
>
> J.
>
> On 13/10/2010 09:06, Tim Anstiss wrote:
> > That's what I don't understand (yet). How did me posing the
> question 'was
> wrap an improvement on the biomedical model' lead you to infer the
> choice was
> between 'assigning a sick role' or 'victim blaming' ? How does one
> follow
> from the other? Please expain.
> > Sent using BlackBerry® from Orange
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: John Cromby<[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> > Sender: The UK Community Psychology Discussion
> List<[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> > Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 08:29:15
> > To:<[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> > Reply-To: The UK Community Psychology Discussion
> List<[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> > Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] Wellness Recovery Action Plan (WRAP)
> >
> > Tim it simply refers to the dichotomy that you set up by posing the
> > question.
> >
> > J.
> >
> >
> >
> > On 13/10/2010 08:16, Tim Anstiss wrote:
> >> I don't undertand the comment:
> >>
> >> how you assess the morality of assigning a 'sick role' versus
> implicitly
> endorsing victim blaming
> >>
> >> I think this is a false dichotomy. I think you can be with a
> person in a
> way they find helpful, and is helpful, whilst also acting as an
> activist on
> the underlying determinants of health and wellbeing without
> labelling people
> or trying to fix them.
> >>
> >> Tim.
> >>
> >> Sent using BlackBerry® from Orange
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: John Cromby<[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> >> Sender: The UK Community Psychology Discussion
> List<[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> >> Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 08:04:05
> >> To:<[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> >> Reply-To: The UK Community Psychology Discussion
> List<[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> >> Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] Wellness Recovery Action Plan (WRAP)
> >>
> >> An interesting (or, perhaps, interested) question.
> >>
> >>
> >> On the one hand, why should we simply wait for *others* to tackle
> >> capitalism?
> >>
> >>
> >> On the other, one of the reasons biomedical interventions remain
> >> acceptable - apart from the propaganda of big pharma - is precisely
> >> because they remove blame and responsibility.
> >>
> >>
> >> So whether WRAP and related interventions are considered better than
> >> biomedicine depends in part on how you assess the morality of
> assigning
> >> a 'sick role' versus implicitly endorsing victim blaming.
> >>
> >>
> >> When making such assessments the very weak efficacy of WRAP and
> related
> >> interventions, the recognition that any lasting change they
> apparently
> >> produce is already contingent upon an array of other factors
> (available
> >> resources and power, the happy accident of a new job or relationship
> >> etc.) must surely be a factor.
> >>
> >>
> >> And that's before we even contemplate a Foucauldian perspective
> on this...
> >>
> >> J.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 13/10/2010 07:25, Tim Anstiss wrote:
> >>> But while we wait for the selfish capitalist system to be
> overthrown,
> does WRAP represent progress over the biomedical model? Tim.
> >>> Sent using BlackBerry® from Orange
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Annie Mitchell<[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> >>> Sender: The UK Community Psychology Discussion
> List<[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> >>> Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 07:21:33
> >>> To:<[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> >>> Reply-To: The UK Community Psychology Discussion
> List<[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> >>> Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] Wellness Recovery Action Plan
> (WRAP)
> >>>
> >>> Hi Mel,
> >>>
> >>> I agree with your critique. If you re able to search the
> archives of this
> list you will find that this topic has been debated along similar
> lines in
> the past .
> >>>
> >>> Much of the current moves in health provision ( WRAP included)
> , while no
> doubt in part and to some extent well -intentioned serve merely to add
> weight to the systemic victim blaming of those on the margins, and to
> distract and dis-arm the unwary from focusing on and fighting the
> structural, socio-economically determined ( selfish capitalist)
> causes of
> distress.
> >>>
> >>> Good wishes,
> >>>
> >>> Annie
> >>>________________________________________
> >>> From: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List
> [[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>] On Behalf Of Deborah Chinn
> [[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>]
> >>> Sent: 12 October 2010 21:56
> >>> To: [log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> >>> Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] Wellness Recovery Action Plan
> (WRAP)
> >>>
> >>> Dear Mel
> >>>
> >>> I thought your critique was very cogent and well-argued. I'd
> agree that
> >>> this model uses discursive strategies to create a "normal"/expected
> service
> >>> user who responds appropriately to expectations of
> self-management and
> is
> >>> likely to further marginalise people who dont fit in. Your
> request for
> any
> >>> information about the impact of this is a relevant one.
> >>>
> >>> I dont have experience with this particular model, but would
> tend to be
> >>> suspicious of claims that putting in words like "hope" and
> >>> "self-assertiveness" achieve much. Any amount of "person-centred"
> language
> >>> in learning disabilities services for instance, has not
> actually handed
> >>> power over to disadvantaged and marginalised service users and has
> blunted
> >>> real reflection by care providers on the uses and abuses of
> paternalism.
> I
> >>> think that you can maintain and foster respect, sensitivity,
> curiousity
> and
> >>> tolerance without needing this sort of framework. Another
> example is
> from
> >>> children's services where practitioners are meant to complete
> "holistic"
> >>> assessments including looking at social, economic and cultural
> context.
> >>> They usually just leave that section out and focus on pathologising
> children
> >>> and parents.
> >>>
> >>> Deborah
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "Mel Wiseman"<[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> >>> To:<[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 11:31 AM
> >>> Subject: Wellness Recovery Action Plan (WRAP)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Hi
> >>>
> >>> I'm a newly qualified clinical psychologist currently in AMH, a new
> poster
> >>> on the forum, and relatively new to Community Psychology as an
> entity,
> >>> although I have held the values and ideas that now draw me to
> it for some
> >>> years.
> >>>
> >>> I would like to ask the forum for their comments and experiences in
> relation
> >>> Wellness Recovery Action Plan (WRAP) which is both a tool and
> an approach
> >>> that is being promoted across mental health in the community, acute
> settings
> >>> and in prisons across the Midlands and some other areas. For
> those who
> are
> >>> uninitiated http://www.mentalhealthrecovery.com/, but
> essentially it
> works
> >>> officially on 5 principles for 'Wellness' in 'recovering from a
> breakdown':
> >>> Hope, Self-Responsibility, Self-Assertiveness, Education and
> Support from
> 5
> >>> people. There has been some nod toward 2 additional
> considerations of
> >>> 'power' and 'context', but this is not part of the original
> model and is
> not
> >>> well understood or integrated. It seems to perform a similar
> role to
> Care
> >>> Plans and Relapse Prevention plans, but encompasses more than
> just mental
> >>> health and is owned by the person.
> >>>
> >>> I have recently been to a training session on WRAP and am being
> asked to
> >>> comment on it as an approach within or alongside psychology and AMH
> >>> generally - how it fits. It is being sold as a vast improvement on
> current
> >>> practise due to the 'handing responsibility and ownership to
> the service
> >>> user' and 'collaborative approach'. Psychologists and
> Psychiatrists here
> >>> are being asked to lead on its implementation as we become a
> 'Recovery
> led
> >>> NHS trust'. Comments that I (et al) made to the training
> facilitator
> were
> >>> the following:
> >>>
> >>> · Use of the term 'Wellness' - implies illness and does nothing
> to move
> away
> >>> from the medical model.
> >>> · Perpetuation of individualised notions of mental distress through
> >>> 'self-responsibility' and 'self-assertiveness' - no
> understanding of
> whether
> >>> someone has the power to improve or maintain their 'wellness'
> through
> these
> >>> methods or whether they find it meaningful to think in this way.
> >>> · Potentially abusive use of clinician devolved
> 'self-responsibility' and
> >>> competency of individuals to deliver this approach competently and
> >>> sensitively.
> >>> · Primarily has been targeted at BME groups, 'hard to engage'
> groups and
> in
> >>> some cases involuntarily to secondary care mental health
> service users in
> >>> prison. I'm concerned that this may further burden people who
> have less
> >>> power to be 'responsible' for their mental health because they
> don't fit
> the
> >>> existing systems - maybe it frees them from services they don't
> want to
> be
> >>> part of?
> >>>
> >>> I don't think that I have the knowledge or experience to
> comprehend the
> >>> impact (positive or negative) of such a shift in emphasis (if
> it indeed
> >>> happens in practice). I would be interested in the views of
> others who
> may
> >>> have experienced the uses and abuses of this, have alternative
> suggestions,
> >>> comments or reactions in relation to mental health practise or
> Psychology
> in
> >>> general.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks
> >>>
> >>> Mel
> >>>
> >>>___________________________________
> >>> The Community Psychology List has a new website/blog at:
> >>> http://www.communitypsychology.co.uk/
> >>> There is a threaded discussion forum:
> >>> http://www.communitypsychology.co.uk/cgi-bin/discus/discus.cgi
> >>> There is a twitter feed:
> >>> http://twitter.com/CommPsychUK
> >>> To post on the website blog, forum or twitter feed, contact
> Grant or
> David
> >>> at the email addresses below.
> >>> David Fryer ([log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>) or Grant Jeffrey
> >>> ([log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>)
> >>> To unsubscribe or to change your details on this
> COMMUNITYPSYCHUK list,
> >>> visit the website:
> >>> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=COMMUNITYPSYCHUK
> >>>
> >>>___________________________________
> >>> The Community Psychology List has a new website/blog at:
> >>> http://www.communitypsychology.co.uk/
> >>> There is a threaded discussion forum:
> >>> http://www.communitypsychology.co.uk/cgi-bin/discus/discus.cgi
> >>> There is a twitter feed:
> >>> http://twitter.com/CommPsychUK
> >>> To post on the website blog, forum or twitter feed, contact
> Grant or
> David at the email addresses below.
> >>> David Fryer ([log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>) or Grant Jeffrey
> ([log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>)
> >>> To unsubscribe or to change your details on this
> COMMUNITYPSYCHUK list,
> visit the website:
> >>> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=COMMUNITYPSYCHUK
> >>>
> >>>___________________________________
> >>> The Community Psychology List has a new website/blog at:
> >>> http://www.communitypsychology.co.uk/
> >>> There is a threaded discussion forum:
> >>> http://www.communitypsychology.co.uk/cgi-bin/discus/discus.cgi
> >>> There is a twitter feed:
> >>> http://twitter.com/CommPsychUK
> >>> To post on the website blog, forum or twitter feed, contact
> Grant or
> David at the email addresses below.
> >>> David Fryer ([log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>) or Grant Jeffrey
> ([log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>)
> >>> To unsubscribe or to change your details on this
> COMMUNITYPSYCHUK list,
> visit the website:
> >>> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=COMMUNITYPSYCHUK
> >>>
> >>>___________________________________
> >>> The Community Psychology List has a new website/blog at:
> >>> http://www.communitypsychology.co.uk/
> >>> There is a threaded discussion forum:
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> >>> http://twitter.com/CommPsychUK
> >>> To post on the website blog, forum or twitter feed, contact
> Grant or
> David at the email addresses below.
> >>> David Fryer ([log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>) or Grant Jeffrey
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> >>> To unsubscribe or to change your details on this
> COMMUNITYPSYCHUK list,
> visit the website:
> >>> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=COMMUNITYPSYCHUK
> >>
> >> --
> >> *********************************************************
> >> John Cromby
> >> Psychology Division, SSEHS
> >> Loughborough University
> >> Loughborough, Leics
> >> LE11 3TU England
> >> Tel: 01509 223000
> >> Email: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> >> Personal webpage: http://www-staff.lboro.ac.uk/~hujc4/
> >> Co-Editor, "Subjectivity": www.palgrave-journals.com/sub/
> <http://www.palgrave-journals.com/sub/>
> >> *********************************************************
> >>
> >>___________________________________
> >> The Community Psychology List has a new website/blog at:
> >> http://www.communitypsychology.co.uk/
> >> There is a threaded discussion forum:
> >> http://www.communitypsychology.co.uk/cgi-bin/discus/discus.cgi
> >> There is a twitter feed:
> >> http://twitter.com/CommPsychUK
> >> To post on the website blog, forum or twitter feed, contact
> Grant or David
> at the email addresses below.
> >> David Fryer ([log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>) or Grant Jeffrey
> ([log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>)
> >> To unsubscribe or to change your details on this
> COMMUNITYPSYCHUK list,
> visit the website:
> >> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=COMMUNITYPSYCHUK
> >>
> >>___________________________________
> >> The Community Psychology List has a new website/blog at:
> >> http://www.communitypsychology.co.uk/
> >> There is a threaded discussion forum:
> >> http://www.communitypsychology.co.uk/cgi-bin/discus/discus.cgi
> >> There is a twitter feed:
> >> http://twitter.com/CommPsychUK
> >> To post on the website blog, forum or twitter feed, contact
> Grant or David
> at the email addresses below.
> >> David Fryer ([log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>) or Grant Jeffrey
> ([log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>)
> >> To unsubscribe or to change your details on this
> COMMUNITYPSYCHUK list,
> visit the website:
> >> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=COMMUNITYPSYCHUK
> >
> > --
> > *********************************************************
> > John Cromby
> > Psychology Division, SSEHS
> > Loughborough University
> > Loughborough, Leics
> > LE11 3TU England
> > Tel: 01509 223000
> > Email: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> > Personal webpage: http://www-staff.lboro.ac.uk/~hujc4/
> > Co-Editor, "Subjectivity": www.palgrave-journals.com/sub/
> <http://www.palgrave-journals.com/sub/>
> > *********************************************************
> >
> >___________________________________
> > The Community Psychology List has a new website/blog at:
> > http://www.communitypsychology.co.uk/
> > There is a threaded discussion forum:
> > http://www.communitypsychology.co.uk/cgi-bin/discus/discus.cgi
> > There is a twitter feed:
> > http://twitter.com/CommPsychUK
> > To post on the website blog, forum or twitter feed, contact Grant
> or David
> at the email addresses below.
> > David Fryer ([log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>) or Grant Jeffrey
> ([log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>)
> > To unsubscribe or to change your details on this COMMUNITYPSYCHUK
> list,
> visit the website:
> > http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=COMMUNITYPSYCHUK
> >
> >___________________________________
> > The Community Psychology List has a new website/blog at:
> > http://www.communitypsychology.co.uk/
> > There is a threaded discussion forum:
> > http://www.communitypsychology.co.uk/cgi-bin/discus/discus.cgi
> > There is a twitter feed:
> > http://twitter.com/CommPsychUK
> > To post on the website blog, forum or twitter feed, contact Grant
> or David
> at the email addresses below.
> > David Fryer ([log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>) or Grant Jeffrey
> ([log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>)
> > To unsubscribe or to change your details on this COMMUNITYPSYCHUK
> list,
> visit the website:
> > http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=COMMUNITYPSYCHUK
>
> --
> *********************************************************
> John Cromby
> Psychology Division, SSEHS
> Loughborough University
> Loughborough, Leics
> LE11 3TU England
> Tel: 01509 223000
> Email: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Personal webpage: http://www-staff.lboro.ac.uk/~hujc4/
> Co-Editor <http://www-staff.lboro.ac.uk/~hujc4/Co-Editor>,
> "Subjectivity": www.palgrave-journals.com/sub/
> <http://www.palgrave-journals.com/sub/>
> *********************************************************
>
> ___________________________________
> The Community Psychology List has a new website/blog at:
> http://www.communitypsychology.co.uk/
> There is a threaded discussion forum:
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> There is a twitter feed:
> http://twitter.com/CommPsychUK
> To post on the website blog, forum or twitter feed, contact Grant or
> David at
> the email addresses below.
> David Fryer ([log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>) or Grant Jeffrey
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> To unsubscribe or to change your details on this COMMUNITYPSYCHUK
> list, visit
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>
> ___________________________________
> The Community Psychology List has a new website/blog at:
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> There is a threaded discussion forum:
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> There is a twitter feed:
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> To post on the website blog, forum or twitter feed, contact Grant or
> David at the email addresses below.
> David Fryer ([log in to unmask]
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> To unsubscribe or to change your details on this COMMUNITYPSYCHUK
> list, visit the website:
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> ___________________________________
> The Community Psychology List has a new website/blog at:
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> To post on the website blog, forum or twitter feed, contact Grant or
> David at the email addresses below.
> David Fryer ([log in to unmask]
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> To unsubscribe or to change your details on this COMMUNITYPSYCHUK
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>
> ___________________________________ The Community Psychology List has a
> new website/blog at: http://www.communitypsychology.co.uk/ There is a
> threaded discussion forum:
> http://www.communitypsychology.co.uk/cgi-bin/discus/discus.cgi There is
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> blog, forum or twitter feed, contact Grant or David at the email
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--
*********************************************************
John Cromby
Psychology Division, SSEHS
Loughborough University
Loughborough, Leics
LE11 3TU England
Tel: 01509 223000
Email: [log in to unmask]
Personal webpage: http://www-staff.lboro.ac.uk/~hujc4/
Co-Editor, "Subjectivity": www.palgrave-journals.com/sub/
*********************************************************
___________________________________
The Community Psychology List has a new website/blog at:
http://www.communitypsychology.co.uk/
There is a threaded discussion forum:
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