Dear John

This is Google's response to your query!  I have highligted it in red  about half way down

Regards

Peter

                                  Genesis 15:13
               400 years of mistreatment in a foreign land
Was the prophecy of Genesis 15:13 fulfilled with the children of Israel's Egyptian sojourn, and bondage?

Genesis 15:13: "And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;"

In this chapter, Yah made a promise to Abram (who later, became Abraham) concerning his seed. Yah says: "Know of a surety that your seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs and shall serve them; and THEY SHALL AFFLICT THEM FOUR HUNDRED YEARS;"

Scholars and "bible experts" point to this prophecy as being fulfilled when the children of Israel spent 430 years in Egypt, but if we closely examine what YAH actually said, we'll see there’s more to this.

The Hebrews walked into Egypt, rather they were brought into Egypt with Pharaoh's own wagons (Genesis 45:19,21,27). They were not slaves, and they were not mistreated. At this time Joseph was vice royal, because of this they held a very favorable position among the Egyptians (Genesis- 45:18-24). The Bible tells us that the oppression of the Hebrews began after Joseph, all his brethren, and the entire generation that entered Egypt died out. Then, there was a population growth among the Hebrews (Exodus 1:6-11).

Scripture also says that Joseph lived for 110 years. He saw his son Ephraim's children of the third generation: the children also of Machir the son of Manasseh (Joseph's other son) were brought up on Joseph's knees (Gen. 50:23,26). Joseph lived long enough to see his great grandchildren.

The children of Israel were only in Egypt 430 years. In order for the prophecy in Genesis 15:13 to be fulfilled, they would have to have been oppressed for 400 years, so this means that after 30 years of being in Egypt, the evil treatment should have begun, but the fact is, thirty years after their arrival, they were still in good favor with the Egyptians.

As was stated, the oppression began after Joseph died, and Joseph's death took place well after their first 30 years in Egypt. Also, during the time of Joseph's death, the Hebrews were still treated well by the Egyptians. The evidence for this can be found in Genesis 50:26.

We are told that Joseph was embalmed and put into a coffin in Egypt. In ancient Egypt, embalming and coffin burial's were reserved for royalty, members of Pharaoh's court and the rich. So this tells us Joseph was still in good favor with the Egyptians when he died, and if Joseph was still treated well by the Egyptians at his death, so were the Hebrews.

Exodus 1:8 says, "Now, there rose up a new king over Egypt, which knew not Joseph." This is a very profound statement because Joseph was second in charge to Pharaoh (Exodus 41:42-44). Being vice royal would have made Joseph a very popular and well known man throughout the land of Egypt, particularly in the house of Pharaoh. Ancient Egyptian history tells us that one could only claim the Pharaoh's throne if:

1. He was the son of the Pharaoh, a prince
2. He was a high ranking member of the king's court
3. He was another male member of the Pharaoh's family.
4. If a coup took place.

In any case, the next Pharaoh would have known who Joseph was, because Joseph was also in the kings court and knew all of the king's sons, all the high ranking members, and all of Pharaoh's male family members.

Scholars have stated that Joseph and the Hebrews were in Egypt when a people known as the Hyksos were in charge.

They try to make a point that the Hyksos were the ones showing favor to the Hebrews and not the native Egyptians. The Hyksos also known as the shepherd kings did conquer and rule Egypt for over 200 years. Their domination of Egypt was known in Egyptian history as the GREAT HUMILIATION.  If we look deeply into scripture we'll find that the Egyptians in Joseph's time were in fact native Egyptians.

First, let's consider the conversation Joseph had with the Hebrews who were first to arrive in Egypt. He was instructing them on how to respond to one of Pharaoh's questions.

In verse 34 of Genesis 46:31-34, Joseph says to them, when Pharaoh asks their occupation, "That ye should say, your servants trade have been about cattle from our youth even until now, both we, and also our fathers: that you may dwell in the land of Goshen; FOR EVERY SHEPHERD IS AN ABOMINATION UNTO THE EGYPTIANS."

This statement alone proves that the Hyksos were not in charge of Egypt during the time of Joseph.  The Hyskos were known as the shepherd kings or kings of the shepherds, so why would every shepherd be an abomination to the SHEPHERD KINGS? But every shepherd would be an abomination to native Egyptians, because the shepherd kings (Hyksos) had brought GREAT HUMILIATION to the Egyptians.

Next lets look at what happened after Ysrayl (Jacob) died, and the thing Joseph had done to his body.

Genesis 50:2-3, "And Joseph commanded his servants the physicians to embalm his father: and the physicians EMBALMED YSRAYL"

(3), "And forty days were fulfilled for him; FOR SO ARE FULFILLED THE DAYS OF THOSE WHICH ARE EMBALMED: and the Egyptians mourned for him 70 days."

Embalming was a practice of the native Egyptians. They were the first culture on earth to embalm their dead. Embalming was not done to all the population of Egypt, just a select few.

The practice of embalming was something done by a highly developed society, the Hyksos on the other hand were shepherds and embalming was more than likely not in their culture. So, if the Hyksos were ruling Egypt during the time of Joseph, why did they retain Egyptian culture? When a nation conquers another, the conqueror always places their culture above that of the conquered nation's.

This is one way that the conqueror shows superiority over the conquered, this has always been the case in ancient and modern times. (This is exactly what has happened with the invasion of the Americas by the Europeans). Because these Egyptians were still embalming according to native Egyptian culture, it stands to reason, that native Egyptians were ruling Egypt.

Scripture clearly shows that Egyptians were ruling Egypt during the time of Joseph and the Hebrews' sojourn.

Now, back to my point of the new king coming to power and not knowing Joseph. In order for this to happen, a few Pharaoh's had to have come to power and with each of them a new vice royal / government. This also means that after Joseph's death, enough time had elapsed where Joseph's memory in the house of Pharaoh was long forgotten, and the Hebrews were no longer seen as good neighbors but a foreign threat.

This is not hard to believe, ask the average Citizen of your country "who was in power at the turn of the 20th century", who was second in authority. Many if not all people (including governmental officials) will not know the answer.

Many years had passed and Joseph and his good deeds were long forgotten. How much time had elapsed? We can only speculate, but we can be assured that it was more than the 30 years of the 430 that they spent in Egypt.

The Hebrews oppression in Egypt did not last 400 years. Exactly how long did it last? We can only speculate on that as well, but we do know that it lasted no less than 80 years.  This was the age of Moses when the Hebrews were liberated. Israel was in slavery from the time Moses was born to the time they were freed, which was 80 years.

Acts 7:6, says that the Hebrews would be brought into bondage in a strange land and those that bring them into bondage will entreat them evil 400 years, meaning no more than 499 years and no less than 399.

If we put this with the other information that has been presented on this site, we'll see that this prophecy was fulfilled with the advent of the trans-Atlantic slave trade.

Any good "black" history book will tell you that only the Hebrews (so called blacks) have been mistreated continually for over 400 years, with every form of racism including slavery, lynching, segregation, Jim Crowism, and the list goes on and on. It has been a non-stop oppression, which still continues today.

The Hebrews were brought to this hemisphere as slaves in the 1500's which was over 400 years ago. If this prophecy of being in a strange land 400 years and being treated evil didn't happen in Egypt, then where?

The only feasible answer would be in the Americas. This is the strange land that is not ours, this is where we have been afflicted continually for 400 years.

Acts 7:6 tells us that the Hebrews were to be brought into bondage. Ancient Ysrayl was not brought in bondage to Egypt they, as I have already mentioned, were in good favor with the Egyptians of Joseph's day. They lived peacefully with them in the beginning, and were not made slaves until much later.

Only the Hebrews of the Americas were brought into bondage into a strange land and entreated evil for over 400 years. No other group can prove that this has happened to them just as prophecy said it would.

In the Apocalypse of Abraham, 32:1-6, states: "Therefore, hear Abraham, and see, behold your seventh generation shall go with you. And they will go out into an alien land. And they will enslave them and oppress them as for one hour of the impious age. But of the nation whom they shall serve I am the judge." And the almighty also said this: "Have you heard Abraham, what I told you, what your tribe will encounter in THE LAST DAYS. Abraham having heard, accepted the words of the almighty in his heart."

The prophecy in Genesis 15, is to be fulfilled in these last days. It was not fulfilled in Egypt.

The 400 years in Genesis 15:13, is not to exceed 499 years.

We have been here for over 400 years (not to exceed 500 and not less than 399), and we're in a strange land that is not our own.

We are not owners of this land, we are only citizens. If the rulers decide we can no longer be citizens, what will stop them from deporting us to some other place?

I only say that, so you the reader will understand how Genesis 15:13 was a prophecy for the latter days, in which we are living now.



P H Borcherds  +44 [0] 121 475 3029
________________________________
From: To exchange information and views on the life and work of Rudyard Kipling [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of John Radcliffe [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 06 August 2010 18:54
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: A quotation

'every shepherd is an abomination to the Egyptians'.

This is quoted by Kipling  in relation to farmers in Upper Egypt, who are hostile to herders because of their precious crops.

Does anyone know where it comes from ? Presumably the Old Testament ?


Grateful for any thoughts, John R