Hi Morgan,
first off forgot to say Hi when replying, but also I think this post
did make a brief appearance, and for some reason vanished again. <?>
ALWays
Jake
On 24 August 2010 23:32, Morgan Leigh <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> I sent this yesterday but it doesn't seem to have appeared so this is a
> resend.
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] Directional Symbolism in the
> Antipodes - was Golden Dawn Origins
> Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 19:54:52 +1000
> From: Morgan Leigh <[log in to unmask]>
> To: Society for The Academic Study of Magic
> <[log in to unmask]>
>
> Hi Jake,
> I too have thought a lot about this matter...
>
>> # Seasons
>
> It depends where you live. Here in Tasmania the seasons are quite
> pronounced so it makes sense to move the seasonal festivals to match.
> This is not true however in many parts of Australia, where the
> indigenous populations have identified a greater number of seasons,
> often demarked by the kind of food that proliferates at a particular
> time, but also by rains and fire.
>
> Sun in Capricorn is summer. This is however the time of sleep for native
> plants as they conserve their energies from the hot sun. It is the time
> of old man bushfire, a time of destruction and limitation. Methinks
> these are Saturnine characteristics. In short, if we look we see meaning
> regardless of which way we arrange the year.
>
>> # Cross quarter days
>
> Are these celebrated because the stars are there, or are the stars
> markers of seasonal festivals?..
>
>
> > # Sun's daily positions (ie N. at Noon)
>
> This would seem a doddle, but it leads us to which way does one go
> around a circle? If your morning ritual is to the East and noon to the
> north, where the sun is, you are going anti clockwise. I have done some
> research of Southern Hemisphere practitioners and the response was split
> about 50/50. Those who moved from the Northern to the Southern
> Hemisphere were split between those who went clockwise because they had
> always done so, and those who said they tried going clockwise but it
> didn't work so they changed. Personally I go clockwise but my focus is
> not the sun but in moving thorough the elements in order.
>
>
>> # Local constellations (the least considered - IMO and by my lights)
>
> The Southern Cross and Orion are probably the most noted constellations
> by Southern Practitioners. While my culture knows Orion, it has no lore
> about the Cross, other than how to use it to find true South, but it's
> movements mark the time of year. It is also interesting to note where
> the North has a pole star we have a great gaping emptiness at the pole.
>
> Regards,
>
> Morgan Leigh
> PhD Candidate
> School of Sociology and Social Work
> University of Tasmania
>
>
>
> On 23/08/2010 9:25 PM, Jake Stratton-Kent wrote:
>> The topic of the directions in the Antipodes is one I come back to and
>> scratch at periodically. Aside from the winds, there are several other
>> issues and I'm not sure all solutions consider all the factors
>> involved.
>>
>> # Seasons
>> # Cross quarter days
>> # Sun's daily positions (ie N. at Noon)
>> # Local constellations (the least considered - IMO and by my lights)
>>
>> I am familiar with some ideas in current practice, but have reservations.
>>
>> 1. The 'Seasons', are they really Seasonal or are the Equinox and
>> Solstice Signs the real issue regardless of climactic differences.
>> That is for example, Sun in Capricorn is the real deal, not Summer or
>> Winter. This might make matters a good deal easier, especially for us
>> non-agrarian moderns.
>>
>> 2. These are *herders fire festivals* and simply switching them
>> across the axes may be simplistic. Again I'd be inclined to look at
>> constellations, not weather; our Northern Sabbats coincide with
>> important greatest declinations of Draco etc. Treating them as
>> abstract calendar dates and switching them over is likely missing a
>> good deal.
>>
>> 3. This is the easiest in many respects, but important not to
>> extrapolate across to other directional issues. Face North for Noon
>> adorations, doddle. In the N.hemisphere of course Sun is South at
>> Noon, so more Sun, but also South at Winter, less Sun. So its clear
>> these are entirely different issues.
>>
>> 4. Constellations *really* need some depth research. Some Aboriginal
>> lore is certainly relevant, but consider too that Meso-America has an
>> advanced star lore that shares some features with OZ &c not found in
>> Ptolemy, the Arabs etc (Southern Cross being the obvious example).
>> Modern occultism tends to lean on traditional ideas without fully
>> embracing the underlying thinking and extrapolating from them. So when
>> there are none from our familiar cache, it gets thin. Thus exchanging
>> the Maya for the Babylonians should provide a firmer base.
>>
>> Sorry if this is a bit sketchy, but my instinct is to really push the
>> stellar rather than seasonal aspect of this question - otherwise
>> subsequent research may well end up colliding with early decisions
>> made on inadequate data.
>>
>> ALWays
>>
>> Jake
>>
>>
>> On 23 August 2010 11:26, Morgan Leigh <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>> Yes, the Felkin stuff is excellent. I have seen an original workbook
>>> from that group which is a detailed explanation of the pentagram ritual.
>>> It is the Stella Matutina formulation of the ritual, with no changes
>>> made on account of the move to the Southern Hemisphere. It includes
>>> descriptions of the winds and their charachteristics which are northern
>>> ones. It's 'natural position of the elements in the Zodiac' puts fire at
>>> East. However it does also say "The Elements vibrate between the
>>> cardinal points for they have not an unchanged abode therein", though
>>> here I think they are referring to quarter circle range of vibration of
>>> elements that they stipulate. This document also refers to the direction
>>> of the sun as being clockwise.
>>>
>>> I have often wondered why he didn't change it. Was it that he thought
>>> that the assignation of elements to directions was an absolute, or was
>>> it that the mind set of the colonists was still so firmly Northern
>>> Hemispheric that making the switch to Southern attributions wouldn't yet
>>> have meaning for them?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Morgan Leigh
>>> PhD Candidate
>>> School of Sociology and Social Work
>>> University of Tasmania
>>>
>>> On 19/08/2010 5:16 PM, Michael Robartes wrote:
>>>> Islands of the Dawn: "The Story of Alternative Spirituality in New
>>>> Zealand" by Robert Ellwood, University of Hawaii Press, 1993 ,
>>>> particularly chapter six, "The Wizards of Havelock North" , may have
>>>> some scholarly insights that are usable to you,
>>>>
>>>> MR
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 8:25 AM, Christopher Josiffe
>>>> <[log in to unmask]
>>>> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Could anyone recommend a text that deals with the foundation of the
>>>> Golden Dawn, particularly with the way in which such rituals as the
>>>> Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram were composed/compiled?
>>>> (Westcott, Woodman and Mathers doing a lot of research in the
>>>> British Library?)
>>>>
>>>> I believe I saw a scholarly work on just this topic, but can't for
>>>> the life of me recall the title or author.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Christopher
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Michael Robartes
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
>
--
Jake
http://www.underworld-apothecary.com/
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