Hi Mark,

just to say thanks for another take on my main direction. That is not
just studying antiquity or the early modern period &c retrospectively,
important as that is. Rather to detect and influence tendencies latent
in our culture which are suited for an extension of the kind we're
discussing.

The Underworld Initiation (present in decayed form in magical treasure
hunting etc.?) is perhaps the initiated expression of the 'practical
eschatology' magic provides - or should provide - the wider community.

The danger is that if in exasperation with 'our' tradition we go
seeking elsewhere, this will remain an isolated personal experience as
a passenger in another culture, rather than a conduit between the two.
There is very real potential for a cross-cultural synthesis in the
'globalised' world, but suitable elements have to be present in our
own culture for it to flower to the fullest possible extent.

I truly appreciate your input,

ALWays

Jake

On 1 July 2010 14:18, mark rance <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Qlippoth and Magic, Goetic Spirits ('Lesser Key of Solomon', etc.) What
> these threads illustrate for me is a lack of any kind of underworld
> initiation within the west over a period of time (Unless it assumed a
> Christianised form) I think the dealings with the Infernal and Fallen angels
> are a way to retain this kind of knowledge. If the contested idea of
> kabbalah having a greek origin is taken into account and the greek notions
> of thought that influenced Judaic thinking are observed then perhaps it is
> natural within the context of modern thought and its development to create
> an underworld that seems to be lacking to the modern practitioner. A way of
> reclaiming hell in a sense or redefining it out of Judaeo Christian terms
> into modern and post modern Magickal and Neo Pagan narratives. People seem
> to approach this by re-appropriating Christian mythology with adversarial
> mythopoesis or turning to the envisioning of other traditional narratives of
> the After or Under.
>
> The narrative structure of the Threshold has largely received an
> authoritarian narrative in western cultures because of perhaps the power
> their is perceived to be in controlling the definitions of such borders as
> those between life and death, punishment and pleasure for example. This
> restructuring or recapturing of these thresholds is perhaps why so many now
> enter into these so called 'darker' areas. As any kind of ancestral lineage
> is heavily established in Orthodox norms, some establishment of creative,
> rewarding and illuminating explorations are undertaken in order to regain a
> sense of connection to what feels to have been lost, yet remains an inherent
> part of life and the psyche.
>
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-- 
Jake

http://www.underworld-apothecary.com/