Fair distinction - but I'd put 'An Horation Ode upon Cromwel's Return from
Ireland' on the other side of the border from 'Masque of Anarchy' - surely
the first keeps on undercutting any sureness on the reader's part as to what
Marvell's position is, where the second is clear as day, or night.
Jamie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robin Hamilton" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 8:45 PM
Subject: Re: "Cambridge Poetry and Political Ambition" by Robert Archambeau
> Ah, I'd distinguish agitprop as poetry (directly) intended to
> move/persuade whereas "political poetry" (for me) would be poetry intended
> to elucidate.
>
> (Which would leave rather the political side of _Paradise Lost_ open to
> argument as to which side of the divide it sat on.)
>
> Parallel to the erotic/pornographic distinction, perhaps?
>
> On one side (I think I'm remembering Al Alvarez here), _Coriolanus_, "The
> Horation Ode" vs. "Masque" and Marvell's "Cromwell's Return from Ireland"
> (title?)
>
> I do have a problem arguing this, as I have a severe distaste for
> virtually everything Shelley wrote *except "Masque", so I don't really
> want to get into the _Prometheus Unbound_ issue.
>
> But yes, I think we're probably not that far apart here, comes down to it.
>
> Robin
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jamie McKendrick" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 7:59 PM
> Subject: Re: "Cambridge Poetry and Political Ambition" by Robert
> Archambeau
>
>
>> Robin,
>> Bear with me if I'm being dim, but I don't see where I've tripped
>> regarding your poetry/ agitprop distinction.
>> I'm not disagreeing that the 'Masque' is agitprop (even then, I quite
>> like it). If in slightly different terms, it seems to me I'm saying the
>> same thing.
>> Jamie
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Robin Hamilton" <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 7:21 PM
>> Subject: Re: "Cambridge Poetry and Political Ambition" by Robert
>> Archambeau
>>
>>
>>> Jamie,
>>>
>>> You're tripping over the political poetry / agitprop distinction.
>>>
>>> Shelley's "Masque" is agitprop.
>>>
>>> (I say, "is", advisedly.)
>>>
>>> Think (minimal differences) the contrast between Mayakovsky's Red
>>> Passport and Yevtushenko's Dead Russian
>>> Soldier poem.
>>>
>>> (Or way back when, Homer vs. Archolichus.)
>>>
>>> Only later, do we get to the Horarian Ode.
>>>
>>> Robin
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Jamie McKendrick" <[log in to unmask]>
>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 6:37 PM
>>> Subject: Re: "Cambridge Poetry and Political Ambition" by Robert
>>> Archambeau
>>>
>>>
>>> Behind this comment there's the assumption that only poetry which is
>>> "transparent and easily understood" can have any political efficacy. It
>>> also
>>> assumes that the "disinterested" reader, whoever that may be, will be
>>> put
>>> off and paralysed by difficulty.
>>> Since Shelley's already been mentioned, this assumption would value,
>>> as
>>> far at least as its political effect on the reader, the relatively
>>> straightforward message of 'The Masque of Anarchy' and would consider
>>> the
>>> more complex political thinking in, say, 'Prometheus Unbound', a waste
>>> of
>>> breath. Try it further back: Milton? Dante?
>>> Poetry, avant-garde or other, surely needs to hope for the depth rather
>>> than the width of its readership...?
>>> Jamie
>>
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