Here is another interesting event caused by volcano ash:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KLM_Flight_867
Alexander Hellemans
On Tue, 27 Apr 2010 12:10 +0100, "Michael Kenward" <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:
> You were not the person who first dropped this depth charge. That was
> Jonathan Osborne with comments on science in the media, which no longer
> seems to be the subject under discussion.
>
> One question worth asking, which none of the media seems to have done, is
> what has Rolls-Royce to say on the issue? My spies, in very high places,
> say
> they have tried but the company is keeping mum on the issue. Why?
>
> These days they could use the "We asked them to comment..." routine.
>
> As to the rest of this, from what I have read here the general view is
> that
> it was sensible to have grounded flights. That also seems to be the
> consensus opinion in the engineering community. There don't even seem to
> be
> many complaints from travellers about the decision. The moans are about
> the
> recovery process. But what do people expect of an airline that flogged
> them
> tickets to Spain for a few quid?
>
> On the press, Andrew Russell's account does not surprise me. When did the
> Daily Mail ever care about the facts?
>
> No cloud? Tell that to the people who had to strip out the engines of
> helicopters and fighter engines that flew through it.
>
> http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2010/04/16/340727/pictures-finnish-f-18
> -engine-check-reveals-effects-of-volcanic.html
>
> or
>
> http://tinyurl.com/y5meavs
>
>
> MK
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: psci-com: on public engagement with science
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Bruce Etherington
> Sent: 27 April 2010 09:17
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] Reporting Science
>
> My main point [as the person who lobbed the depth charge in and then went
> silent for 24hrs(!)] was the public and industry reaction to the use of
> the
> precautionary principle by the appropriate authorities. As has been
> pointed
> out, volcanoes do not create ash clouds that affect air travel that often
> and, in the absence of any firm evidence about safe flying levels in
> clouds
> that were not visible to the naked eye, the decision was made to stop
> flights until more information was known. This reaction is interesting
> given
> recent occurences where people have called for the implementation of the
> precautionary principle (PP) when scientific knowledge is called into
> question e.g. swine flu, MMR etc.
>
> My comment about the airlines not having taken steps to determine safe
> flying levels arises from their strong criticism of the use of the
> precautionary principle and links to Health and Safety law in the UK
> which
> rests on the phrases "practicably reasonable" i.e. what practicable
> reasonable steps could be taken to protect the safety of passengers. So,
> given the 1982 incident, and assuming that an aircraft had actually been
> troubled by ash it was flying through in this case, the Health and Safety
> Executive would be asking, is it foreseeable that planes might fly into
> ash
> clouds again? Then have all reasonably practicable steps been taken to
> mimise risk. So, in the absence of any verified safe limits for fluing in
> ash, the only reasonably practicable step to ensure passenger safety is
> to
> ground the planes. I am fully aware that airline companies (as with all
> induustries) do not want to spend more money than necessary, but if the
> airline companies want to have the right to complain about these steps
> then
> they should be undertaking the necessary reasonably practicable measures
> to
> identify safe levels. This is why I brought this into the discussion as
> part
> of the reaction to the use of the precautionary principle.
>
> By the way, the use of the precautionary principle is part of EU law for
> environmental and consumer protection laws amongst others.
>
> Bruce
>
> P.S. I'll probably go silent again till tomorrow morning when I next
> receive
> my PCST digest email.
>
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