I don't agree with Jeffrey either, which makes a nice change. I think,
considering all the evidence, it is a huge claim to make. I love the
Waste Land. I love Finnegans Wake, both were immense innovations
within the context of high modernism, but it never ended there as Bob
points out below. What those works did achieve though was iconic
status, which is very understandable, but I think Jeffrey is confusing
that iconic status with something else.
Tim A.
On 24 Apr 2010, at 21:40, Bob Grumman wrote:
> Jeffrey Side wrote:
>> Desmond, I don’t think it a claim that is of such magnitude. Try as
>> I have, I haven’t found anything as innovative as these works, the
>> nearest I’ve come is Kerouac’s use of chain words, which influenced
>> the first parts of Ginsberg’s Howl.
>> Of course, I’m not claiming that The Waste Land and Finnegans Wake
>> have not been influential, just that nothing since has been as
>> paradigm shifting in poetry. Of course, I speak only of the current
>> situation. I don’t rule out the possibility of equally paradigm-
>> shifting poetry occurring in the future.
>>
> Concrete poetry was as important an innovation as The Waste Land, so
> what if the academics disdain it and the visual poetry that has
> followed out of it. There is also minimalist poetry, sound poetry,
> cyber poetry, language poetry, my own mathematical poetry and I'm
> sure I've missed some. I would agree that nothing the beats did was
> particularly innovative. I would also agree that I've mentioned
> nothing that didn't have roots in previous poetry--like Herbert and
> Stein, as well as Pound and Joyce, but all innovations have roots in
> the past.
>
> --Bob G.
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