Hi Stevan,
On 23/03/2010 13:18, "Stevan Harnad" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Once 1000 universities (instead of 100) have deposit mandates (as
> Southampton already does), the (already minuscule) problems you
> mention will be off the screen (and universal OA will be in sight,
> fast approaching)...
I am not sure that your use of "miniscule" is an accurate reflection of
reality - in fact the figures that people are specifying (for example Arthur
Sale's paper) would suggest otherwise.
Also, I am a bit disappointed that there has been no response to my analysis
of the 95% figure that seems to be used around quite a lot, and seems to be
used relating to the general researcher population, when it relates to a
self-selecting population.
Best
Hugh
>
> On 23-Mar-10, at 8:57 AM, Hugh Glaser wrote:
>
>> Thanks Arthur.
>> I actually know quite a lot of academics who are delinquent in one
>> or more
>> of the things that they are mandated to do, or only do the minimum
>> they can
>> get away with without being hassled.
>> That is sort of the point here.
>> I am not saying mandates are bad.
>> Mandates are great, if you want to put get stuff into your repository.
>>
>> But once you have the mandate, the work is not finished.
>> Compliance must be tackled, and simply telling academics there is a
>> mandate
>> is not the only way of improving it. Carrots of the right taste are
>> good, as
>> well as sticks.
>>
>> By the way, I see people talking about mandates working or
>> repositories
>> being full.
>> One of the things I noticed when we built rkbexplorer.com(*) was
>> that when I
>> looked at ECS at Southampton, which had had a mandate for many
>> years, there
>> were significant numbers of papers that had been published by
>> members of
>> staff that were not in ECS ePrints.
>> I keep meaning to write a utility that will identify them, but
>> haven't found
>> the time yet.
>> Is there research that identifies the proportion of an institution's
>> publications that do not get deposited for a steady state mandate?
>> If so, does it manage to relate the different compliance rates to
>> the way
>> the policy is presented?
>>
>> I also see people (on this list and elsewhere) asking for help in
>> convincing
>> people to deposit. The response is frequently to say that the
>> mandate is the
>> whole answer. I find that disappointing. Perhaps if a more inclusive
>> approach was taken, the mandate uptake and compliance would not be
>> quite as
>> painful.
>>
>> There was a time I was the person in charge of the ECS Southampton
>> repository, so please don't think I am against mandates. But I think
>> it does
>> mean I am aware of some of the problems.
>>
>> Best
>> Hugh
>>
>> (*)rkbexplorer.com is a system that harvests many sources of
>> publications,
>> including oai archives, dblp, acm, citeseer (some with older data),
>> and
>> gives a unified view of an individual's research activity.
>>
>> On 23/03/2010 04:37, "Arthur Sale" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>>> Perhaps I can add something to this discussion. The reason we know
>>> that
>>> mandates are the only way to get repositories full is simple- it
>>> works and
>>> nothing else does.
>>>
>>> Long experience over many years has consistently proven that
>>> persuading
>>> academics to deposit their papers is a Sisyphean task. A few
>>> academics stay
>>> persuaded, but the persuasion for most wears off after a while, and
>>> the
>>> persuaded academics drop out. The balance seems to be around 15%,
>>> maybe
>>> slightly higher like 20% where the benefits are more obvious.
>>> Neither level
>>> is satisfying and no-one has found any good argument for persuasion
>>> as a
>>> strategy, except as a route to a mandate.
>>>
>>> Let's not get hung up about mandates. Academics are mandated all
>>> the time.
>>> Indeed it is an intrinsic part of what it means to be an academic.
>>> They are
>>> required to turn up to scheduled lectures. They are required to set
>>> exam
>>> papers, and even worse to mark them. Most academics are required to
>>> undergo
>>> performance management evaluation, or to go through promotion
>>> procedures to
>>> proceed in rank. Academics are required not to molest their
>>> students or show
>>> personal preferences. When things like the RAE/REF are contemplated,
>>> academics are required to take part. Academics are also required to
>>> publish
>>> their research. Academics happily mandate that their students must
>>> submit
>>> assignments on time, and turn up to exams. I could keep going on
>>> for quite a
>>> long time...
>>>
>>> The only immediate solution in this transitional time is deposit
>>> mandates.
>>> Once mandates are universal, they become the community norm but a
>>> mandate
>>> nonetheless.
>>>
>>> Arthur Sale
>>> University of Tasmania
>>> Australia
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