I don't think there will be a 'new degree' there is in some countries a degree above the ph.d. The existence of that degree in Australia granted sort of honorarily, and in the Nordic countries after completing other work after the dissertations. There is also the M.Phil. which is the degree some universities offer if you do not produce a dissertation but complete all the work necessary for that.
the ph.d. signifies its minimum standard. It currently means you have produced unique research that your committee thinks meets the level of a doctorate. It does not mean you've produced a manuscript of a certain length, as for the last 30 years many universities around the world have allowed dissertations by compilation of published materials. It does not mean that you are capable of managing a research project of any size because many doctoral dissertations are managed by the supervisors as part of a research group. It does not mean you have defended the research in any way, as several universities do not require oral or written defenses. It does not necessarily mean anything else other than the production of research approved by a committee. People have indicated that the doctoral dissertation means a person has performed a mental transformation.... and it doesn't mean that either. Anything else is likely reflected in one's vita.
As I said, there is no necessary magic here, there is nothing special to a dissertation, it is a person performing work to a level that can pass review. The work can be anything the the committee accepts. This is not to say that some people do not have miraculous transformations, but I've never seen a good one, though i've seen many people have breakdowns or other problems because, i'd argue, they were buying into the ideology or magical transformation mindset, that tells them everything will be different. At my Uni, we have had jr professors commit suicide before because of this ideology of transformation, etc. Post-dissertation depression is actually quite well known as a problem. I think academics need to really critically reflect on it and see what harm it is doing by posing the dissertation as something transformative, it is academic labour in pursuit of a goal, which is attainable by many people. There is no special transformation that occurs, anymore than the transformation of any other knowledge gained, a car mechanic has the exact same thing.
That should reduce the doctoral experience sufficiently to what it really has become, a qualification. Nothing special to it other than it qualifies you to perform some jobs in some people's eyes.
My statement below was to indicate that for many universities in the U.S. there is a graduate faculty. Admission to the graduate faculty is usually granted after a period of years in which one serves on graduate student committees and performs related tasks, etc. This I'd argue is the apprenticeship in supervision that seems to be required and missing from doctoral programs. Many universities have recognized that performing as a doctoral student is insufficient to supervise doctoral students. Some people might be able to, but some will not, so they have this other institution to try to ensure that students are supervised well. (note it also aids in making sure doctoral students are not supervised by people without tenure, thus limiting the obvious problems there for both supervisor and student)
On Dec 8, 2009, at 9:24 AM, Filippo A. Salustri wrote:
> I know there are many places in the world where there are effectively 2
> kinds (or more) of PhDs. I'm uncomfortable with this because this does not
> allow for the distinction of kinds of expertise. I'm not saying that one
> "kind" is better or worse than the other. I am saying is that if "PhD"
> becomes nothing more than a container object for a bunch of relatively
> diverse things, then it itself will tend to lose meaning. Because I believe
> strongly in intellectual and educational diversity, I would prefer to see a
> variety of post-masters (or however we want to call them) degrees, where PhD
> would be the one used to signify a particular speciality.
>
> Nor does this preclude the title of "doctor" being used for other degrees.
> D.Eng, for instance. Doctor of Engineering; doctor of philosophy; and
> doctor of I don't know what all else. They all share the title of "doctor",
> which generalizes the level of expertise, then some other specifier that
> narrows down the field a little.
>
> Cheers.
> Fil
>
> 2009/12/6 jeremy hunsinger <[log in to unmask]>
>
>>>
>>> If research and supervision skills are irrelevant to a PhD, then we'll
>>> need a second degree. Otherwise, we'll be awarding two kinds of PhD: one
>>> for people who can do research and supervise research training, another
>>> for people who simply want to call themselves doctor. Unless we're
>>> moving in that direction, demonstrating these skills establishes the
>>> basis for awarding or denying the PhD.
>>
>> many universities already have this system, but don't need a degree for it.
>> in the u.s. that is, many universities maintain a graduate faculty who are
>> almost all tenured with significant research records and only those faculty
>> can be chairs or supervisors. this has been going on for quite some time
>> from what I can tell. you don't need another degree for it, you just have
>> to have the institutional design for it. entrance into graduate faculty
>> is usually by peer review, though some places it is automatically granted
>> with tenure or with full professorship.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Jeremy Hunsinger
>> Center for Digital Discourse and Culture
>> Virginia Tech
>> Information Ethics Fellow, Center for Information Policy Research, School
>> of Information Studies, University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee
>> http://wiki.tmttlt.com
>> http://www.tmttlt.com
>>
>> Whoever ceases to be a student has never been a student.
>> -George Iles
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Filippo A. Salustri, Ph.D., P.Eng.
> Mechanical and Industrial Engineering
> Ryerson University
> 350 Victoria St, Toronto, ON
> M5B 2K3, Canada
> Tel: 416/979-5000 ext 7749
> Fax: 416/979-5265
> Email: [log in to unmask]
> http://deseng.ryerson.ca/~fil/
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