medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
i should think the point of the crosses adorned with sculpted figures is that,
simply, they exist --and therefore prove the existence of figural sculpture
(at least relief sculpture) at that date (whatever the date of the crosses
is).
that being the case, the bald statement that "As for images, there wouldn't
have been statues in churches that early" would seem to be a bit of a stretch,
even if amended to read "there wouldn't have been *free-standing* statues in
churches that early."
certainly none have survived --but then very, very little has survived from
that dark epoch, save for a few buildings, some manuscripts, some metalwork,
some "ivory" carvings, a paltry few frescoes(?), and even more paltry few
glass window fragments... the quality of all of which seems to be generally
quite high, suggesting a *much* larger mass of artifacts, 99.997% of which (by
my careful count) have simply been lost without a trace.
stone sculpture would have had the best chance for surviving, of course, but,
given the evident quality of the sculptures on the crosses we should assume
sculpture once existed in other, much more fragile media --stucco, "ivory,"
wax, and, certainly most ubiquitously, wood.
statues which were "free-standing" can't really be ruled out, given the state
of our knowledge (or, more precisely, of our ignorance).
c
------ Original Message ------
Received: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 07:12:59 PM EST
From: Dr Jim Bugslag <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [M-R] Feasts and paintings
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
> Good point, George,
> The tenor of Meg's original question, though, suggested free-standing
statues within churches, which were a much later development. If anything,
the standing crosses were probably replacements for churches, rather than
decorations of them.
> Cheers,
> Jim
> > And of course the great standing crosses, such as Ruthwell and Bewcastle
in England, and in Ireland, often feature sculpted figures and texts.
> >
> > GHB
> >
> > On Nov 30, 2009, at 2:05 PM, Dr Jim Bugslag wrote:
> >
> >> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
culture
> >>
> >> Meg,
> >> According to Bede, Benedict Biscop brought back more from Rome than
chants: he apparently brought the cantor of St Peter's. I can't comment on the
liturgical aspects of your question, although certainly Marian feasts were
becoming established in Rome during the 7th century. As for images, there
wouldn't have been statues in churches that early. Bede, however, claims that
many panels were
brought from Rome, and describes in some detail the "programme" of images in
the church at Jarrow. I know this has been written about recently (Richard
Gameson?), but don't have any references at hand.
> >> Cheers,
> >> Jim
> >>
> >> Cormack, Margaret Jean wrote:
> >>> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
> >>> culture
> >>>
> >>> Greetings all,
> >>>
> >>> The discussion of the Purification has reminded me of something I
> >>> have wondered about for some time, and I’ll ask it now. We know that
> >>> Benedict Biscop brought back to England the “chant for the
> >>> liturgical year as it was sung in Rome” around 680. My question is
> >>> not about the singing, but about what the liturgical year would have
> >>> looked like at that time. What were the main feasts that would have
> >>> been celebrated in Rome? In England, if different? What about art?
> >>> Do we have any idea of the decoration of churches (in particular,
> >>> statues or murals of saints or biblical episodes) at this time?
> >>>
> >>> Meg
> >>>
> >>> *From:* medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval
> >>> religious culture [mailto:[log in to unmask]] *On
> >>> Behalf Of *Revd Gordon Plumb
> >>> *Sent:* Monday, November 30, 2009 11:51 AM
> >>> *To:* [log in to unmask]
> >>> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> >>> *Subject:* Re: [M-R] Changing description of 2 February
> >>>
> >>> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
> >>> culture
> >>>
> >>> Rosemary
> >>>
> >>> I forgot to mention that in the late medieval period scenes of the
> >>> Purification were mostly accompanied by a procession of folk bearing
> >>> candles. Curiously enough I have recently been scanning an image of
> >>> this in the 12thC glass in the central west façade window at
> >>> Chartres, devoted to the Childhood and Life of Christ.
> >>>
> >>> Gordon
> >>>
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