JiscMail Logo
Email discussion lists for the UK Education and Research communities

Help for CCP4BB Archives


CCP4BB Archives

CCP4BB Archives


CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

CCP4BB Home

CCP4BB Home

CCP4BB  December 2009

CCP4BB December 2009

Options

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password

Subject:

Re: decrease of background with distance?

From:

James Holton <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

James Holton <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 2 Dec 2009 10:01:53 -0800

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (134 lines)

I recently wrote a little jiffy program for calculating "general
scattering" images that could perhaps be useful for answering some of
the questions raised on this thread:
http://bl831.als.lbl.gov/~jamesh/nearBragg/nearBragg2D.c

Instructions for compiling and running are in this text file:
http://bl831.als.lbl.gov/~jamesh/nearBragg/example.com

No libraries are required!  You give nearBragg2D a text file containing
one x y z "atom" position per line in Angstrom (and optionally some
camera parameters that have sensible defaults) and it writes out an
SMV-format image file of normalized intensity at the detector.  Plus
some raw binary "float" files that contain the absolute structure factor
at the center of each pixel.

nearBragg2D makes no assumptions whatsoever about unit cells, FFTs,
acoustic vs optical or whatever diffuse scattering, or even Bragg's law
(and the far-field approximations he made).  All it does is calculate
the distance from one or more source points to each "atom" and then from
the "atom" to the center of a detector pixel.  Then it adds up the sin()
and cos() of all such paths through all listed atoms and squares the
result to get intensity.  It is actually a very short program (~300
lines).  The atoms are considered point scatterers with an intrinsic
structure factor of "1" in all directions.  That is, they don't have
form factors or anything like that.  It is up to you to make a list of
atoms at positions that you find interesting.  I find it most
instructive to start with one atom at "0 0 0" and then start adding new
atoms to see what happens, as in the example.com file.

I have found this code to be highly informative, and originally wrote it
to try to understand exactly how different kinds of lattice disorder
affect scattering.  It is also useful to explore when a "lattice
translocation defect" becomes twinning, and figure out when diffuse
scattering "tails" that are "under the spots" become "important".  The
answer to the last question appears to be "never".  The
"background"-subtracted spot intensities really are the square of the
Fourier transform of the AVERAGE electron density in a unit cell.  Yes,
the arithmetic average.  Does not matter where the background comes
from.  This is another beer I owe Colin.

However, somehow I get the feeling that not everyone will agree with me
on this.  So, I have provided the code so that interested parties can do
their own "experiments" and come to their own conclusions.  nearBragg2D
might even be a useful teaching tool.  I think it would be instructive
to the original poster and other BBers if interested parties can "prove
me wrong" by coming up with a constellation of points in space that
exemplify the point they are trying to make.

In keeping with my own request, I present the calculated general
scattering from a 101^3 lattice of points when the points are moved from
their ideal positions by a Gaussian-distributed displacement:
http://bl831.als.lbl.gov/~jamesh/nearBragg/diffuse_scatter_nearBragg.png

The error bars are the mean (and sigma) of intensity from 10,000 runs of
nearBragg using different random number seeds for the displacements
(with rmsd consistent with the indicated B factor), and the solid lines
are the result of multiplying the "perfect lattice" scattering by
exp(-B*s^2).  I chose a spot (at 1.81 A) that was about to "wink out" to
demonstrate that the theoretical intensity using the B-factor is
actually "riding" on top of the diffuse scatter.  For a completely
disordered group of atoms, the theoretical "diffuse scatter" in this
case is simply "1", since that is the scattering from one "atom" and for
this graph I am dividing the result printed out by nearBragg by the
number of atoms in the list.  The point I am trying to make here is that
background subtraction really does give you the scattering from the
average unit cell electron density.


Happy scattering!

-James Holton
MAD Scientist


Richard Gillilan wrote:
>>
>> David had developed an empirical theory to model the air, solvent,
>> Compton & acoustic contributions and correct the integrated data for
>> these, without background correction of course since the optic DS
>> background was ultimately to be our data!
> ...
>
> Hi Ian, did David publish this theory somewhere? I'd love to get a
> reference.
>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> I'm genuinely confused by this because I thought the whole point of
>>> modern focusing optics (or at least the confocal mirror design) is to
>>> focus the beam onto (or close to) the sample, in which case
>>> wouldn't the
>>> photons diverge from the 'virtual source' (actually a real
>>> image of the
>>> real source) at the crystal, instead of from the real source?  So then
>>> Bragg spots (and therefore also the acoustic DS) should
>>> diverge from the
>>> position of this virtual source?
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> -- Ian
>>>
>
>
> This does seem confusing now. Here at CHESS, focus is either at the
> collimator (just upstream of the sample), or, in the case of
> capillaries, on the sample. In rare cases, on the detector.  True, the
> focal spot would be a virtual source and, if the spot is reflected by
> an ideal crystal, that wouldn't change anything. But it is a very well
> collimated source even though it is slightly divergent (by a few mrad
> at most) ... this is in contrast to background scatter where photons
> are emitted in the whole q range (assuming it is "that kind" of
> scatter). So maybe it is more accurate to say Bragg reflections and
> background scatter are two rather different kinds of sources located
> at the crystal.
>
> Pardon my ignorance, but how can lattice phonons be a significant
> effect at low temperature? I presume the correlated displacements you
> refer to must be phonon modes frozen in place to create static
> disorder or something like that ... or perhaps stuff is moving more
> than I think at 100 K.
>
> Richard
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

JiscMail Tools


RSS Feeds and Sharing


Advanced Options


Archives

April 2024
March 2024
February 2024
January 2024
December 2023
November 2023
October 2023
September 2023
August 2023
July 2023
June 2023
May 2023
April 2023
March 2023
February 2023
January 2023
December 2022
November 2022
October 2022
September 2022
August 2022
July 2022
June 2022
May 2022
April 2022
March 2022
February 2022
January 2022
December 2021
November 2021
October 2021
September 2021
August 2021
July 2021
June 2021
May 2021
April 2021
March 2021
February 2021
January 2021
December 2020
November 2020
October 2020
September 2020
August 2020
July 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007


JiscMail is a Jisc service.

View our service policies at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ and Jisc's privacy policy at https://www.jisc.ac.uk/website/privacy-notice

For help and support help@jisc.ac.uk

Secured by F-Secure Anti-Virus CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager