JiscMail Logo
Email discussion lists for the UK Education and Research communities

Help for WIRELESS-ADMIN Archives


WIRELESS-ADMIN Archives

WIRELESS-ADMIN Archives


WIRELESS-ADMIN@JISCMAIL.AC.UK


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

WIRELESS-ADMIN Home

WIRELESS-ADMIN Home

WIRELESS-ADMIN  November 2009

WIRELESS-ADMIN November 2009

Options

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password

Subject:

Re: Legal liability?

From:

"Paul Hill (phill)" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Wireless Issues in the JANET community <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 30 Nov 2009 15:08:16 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (89 lines)

Cisco is following this case closely for obvious reasons.
The below is shared in arm-chair lawyer spirit as well as
I am neither a lawyer or spokesperson for Cisco.

The current interim advice I have been told internally (for
my customers offering public internet access in Council Libraries)
until this case progresses through to a settled conclusion and/or
the new Bill clarifies things is:

1) The liability lies with the line owner/renter if they are not
a licenced telco.  Therefore hotspot services that go straight
into a telco's own line and infrastructure are not affected.
e.g. a BT Openzone straight onto a BT owned and paid for ADSL
line.  If the traffic is on your own line or transits through
your line in separation, you're liable if you pay that line's
bill and don't otherwise have a Carrier Exemption for some
other purpose.

2) If you are liable, ensure that any Wi-Fi service is portalled,
with NATed IP addresses logged for later tracking, and that users
cannot self-serve without a categoric form of ID being presented
first allowing them access.  That's the hard part, as it puts a
barrier in the way of providing free and ubiquitous wireless.
If the ID is stolen (e.g. credit card number on a chargeable
service) you're OK as you've done the best you can to track a
user.  The problem is where no serious attempt has been made to
keep usage logs.  Using 'best effort' in legal terms, not
technical terms, is usually accepted as proof you have been
responsible in offering a service - but is not guaranteed as
there is a serious lack of case law that is only going to get
worse when the new Bill passes if it goes through broadly
as it's (poorly) drafted at the moment.

It will certainly be interesting to see how this develops.

Regards,
Paul

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wireless Issues in the JANET community [mailto:WIRELESS-
> [log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Mike Richardson
> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 1:27 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Legal liability?
> 
> On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 01:21:04PM +0000, Tim Chown wrote:
> > /armchair lawyer mode on
> >
> > This seems to be a pretty landmark case, but one that will surely be
> > contested/appealed?
> 
> Our expectation as well.
> 
> > The article implies that the pub owner was fined because he couldn't
> > identify individuals who were performing the illegal action when a
civil
> > case was brought against him by whoever the copyright owner was.
> > It doesn't say how that particular Cloud site made access available,
> > or why the individual wasn't accessable.   It hints that NAT was to
> blame.
> 
> We were discussing this at lunchtime. None of the articles seem to
have
> much
> detail as to how the connections were being made. Was the landlord
being
> an
> idiot and giving out one username and password to his customers? AFAIK
a
> normal Cloud user has a their own username so should be identifable.
How
> did
> the complainant identify the AP being used?
> 
> > In the case of eduroam, it should be possible to link a specific
> activity
> > to a specific authenticated user?  And any Tier 3 site will have one
> > global IP per user (and IPv6 available!).
> 
> Sounds reasonable but reason seems to have taken a holiday with this
> story.
> 
> Mike
> --
> Mike Richardson
> Networks
> IT Services, University of Manchester
> *Plain text only please - attachments stripped on arrival*

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

JiscMail Tools


RSS Feeds and Sharing


Advanced Options


Archives

April 2024
February 2024
January 2024
December 2023
November 2023
October 2023
September 2023
August 2023
May 2023
March 2023
February 2023
January 2023
December 2022
November 2022
October 2022
September 2022
July 2022
May 2022
March 2022
February 2022
January 2022
December 2021
November 2021
October 2021
September 2021
August 2021
July 2021
June 2021
May 2021
April 2021
March 2021
February 2021
January 2021
December 2020
November 2020
October 2020
September 2020
July 2020
April 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
March 2018
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
2006
2005
2004
2003


JiscMail is a Jisc service.

View our service policies at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ and Jisc's privacy policy at https://www.jisc.ac.uk/website/privacy-notice

For help and support help@jisc.ac.uk

Secured by F-Secure Anti-Virus CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager