As an example of just how good a museum website can be with Joomla, take
a look at www.guggenheim.org
Hardly a small website and packed full of features.
I would not advocate a small organisation take on using any software
including joomla unless they did have the resource in house to manage
or, and this is the point, use a company that specialises in Joomla (or
Drupal), or other free and open source software, unencumbered by license
restrictions (This is the most important part). That is, free to
distribute the code and use community based modules and plugins, from a
large community, not just a small customer base of a proprietary open
source (seems like an oxymoron) vendor, but say for Joomla, 300,000
installed instances. The last thing I want to do as a Web Manager is to
'hack away to my heart's content'. I would much rather install a module
or component to achieve functionality that has been based on peer review
and subjected to iterative community development. Sure there are 35
events calendars, but usually the ratings systems on the extensions
sites filter out the duds pretty quick.
The menu system in Joomla is as simple or as complex as you want to make
it. But by and large, it is pretty elementary, certainly out of the box.
Takes about 15 minutes of reading on the community maintained
documentation to figure it out.
Dan, love your guys work on IWM, really incredible and a model for what
we achieved in Sea Your History (Thanks for the nod, Hayden) on a much
much smaller budget than the nationals can afford. Indeed, your
adherence to such standards as OAI-PMH is great and to be commended, as
is leaving your code open and unencrypted.
My point is for smaller museums (though Guggenheim is probably one of
the biggest budget holders) it would be in their interest to hire a
company that specialises in software like Joomla and Drupal and myriad
others, and have them create the site in one of these software
solutions, so that the code can be maintained by thousands of other
folks who also specialise in this software, and not be beholden to a
company or small limited customer base. Just because a system has open
code, doesn't mean it would be easy for a php developer to jump in and
hack away at it to get it do what it needs to do, that kind of
development is just reinventing the wheel and ends up costing many
thousands of pounds, when in a modular community based system, the same
functionality could be achieved in quite literally minutes, and by
beginner to intermediate developers.
For the record, I would recommend using these software solutions, and
yes I work with them all on a daily basis:
CMS: Joomla (1.5, and soon 1.6, which has significant major features
added), Drupal (Acquia distribution)
Repository or Digital Asset Management System: DSpace, Fedora (with
Islandora stack)
Document Management System and Document Version Control: Alfresco
Web Server: Apache
Database: MySQL or Postgres
Server Operating System: Ubuntu
Constituent Management System: CiviCRM
E-Commerce Solution: Magento (or virtuemart, but becoming less so)
Forums: PHPBB, among many others
Blog: Wordpress, and Wordpress MU for larger organisations to have a
common blog
Office: OpenOffice (for those who don't know, almost completely
compatible with office 2007, so if you want to start saving very big
money, make the switch, not to mention has pdf and wiki export built in)
Desktop: Ubuntu, Mac, Win 7 (sometimes ya just gotta)
Browser: Chrome, Firefox
All of these I would recommend an organisation use a company or supplier
that will use these solutions.
I made the jump to FOSS about 10 years ago, and I will never go back to
using restrictive licensed products (except for my Mac :) but even then
I hold my nose sometimes and curse Jobs for the restrictions, and multi
boot it with Ubuntu)
Hope this helps some of you in making the jump as well. Come in, the
water's fine.
Bests,
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: Museums Computer Group [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
Dan Donald
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 10:42 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: CMS recommendations
Hi all,
That was a great debate and so right that it should be on a case by case
basis. I know as a developer having both worked on OS systems and
in-house jobs that I'd go for something well documented and with support
behind it (whether from a company or community) every time. That's the
key in many ways, whether you use an agency, in-house web guys or
freelancers, that a project can be easily be picked up by someone else
down the line. Dan's solution sounds promising - perhaps along the
lines of Expression Engine, which I know a lot of people that swear by.
In terms of Open Source systems, if you haven't seen it already, you
might find http://www.cmsmatrix.org/ useful to compare and contrast
systems. You might also find http://php.opensourcecms.com/ useful in
terms of quickly giving them a go without having to do loads of set-up
for yourselves.
IMO, I found Joomla (and Mambo) a little frustrating to work with -
especially the menu system, which seems very inflexible. Wordpress can
very easily cope with being a fairly decent, small-scale CMS too...
Hope that helps,
Dan
-----------------------------------------------
Dan Donald
Here in the Hive
07870 156944
http://hereinthehive.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/hereinthehive
http://twitter.com/hereinthehive
On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 16:10:09 -0000, Tom Jenkins
<[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Museums Computer Group [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
>> Dan Zambonini
>> Sent: 11 November 2009 15:56
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: CMS recommendations
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Our product is 'commercial open source', therefore you'd be fine with
>> all of your questions (i.e. you can hack away to your hearts content,
>> you get all the source code, you can distribute any changes you make
>> to other customers, you can employ any supplier to work on it). We've
>> even built specific interfaces into the system to make it easier to
>> share modules.
>>
>> The only *real* difference is you pay a fee up-front to get the code,
>> and you can't re-sell/distribute the code to other people who haven't
>> paid for it (we have a full-time team of 9 expert developers working
>> on it
>every
>> single day, who we need to pay). In my opinion, that's a small price
>> for the increased usability (we spent over 2 man-years on the user
>> experience
>> design) and, arguably, a better architecture and delivery model than
>> any open source system I've used.
>
>This is why I said 'proprietary', not 'free' :) I totally agree with
>the support side, and I also don't have a problem with people making
>money from software they've written! I was only trying to get across
>(rather badly, in hindsight; it's been a long day) my fears of
>proprietary lock-in. I think it's great that there exist companies like
>yours who embrace the spirit of OS but make money off it too, and would
>much rather recommend that than an entirely closed solution. I do
>think, however, if one has the web developers and time, it's not a bad
>idea to invest in using a FOSS system like Drupal or Joomla, over a
>commercial OS system.
>
>Never meant to come across as a bearded, antlered advocate, either,
>sorry if I did!
>
>>
>> It sounds like a sales pitch, I apologise; that's not why I wanted to
>> get involved in this conversation.
>>
>> I find it ridiculous, actually, that we're still having the 'open
>> source vs paid' argument in 2010, about forty years after it
>> surfaced. I love open source apps in some contexts; in others, I
>> prefer paid software. I would never use Windows (which has more
>> software available) or Linux (which gives me the source code) over my
>> beloved Mac, because my time and enjoyment is more valuable (to me)
>> than the price difference, or the lock-in.
>>
>> And on that note, I give up. Each to their own.
>>
>> Dan
>>
>> PS Sea Your History - pretty cool.
>>
>>
>> On 11/11/2009 15:28, "Hayden Young" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>> > Dan, if I purchase your product and a few months later we have a
>> falling
>> > out, who do I go to for continued support of my system? What about
>if
>> I want
>> > to find a cheaper supplier?
>> >
>> > What about if I find that the system almost does what I want it to
>do
>> but I
>> > need to make some hacks to the core? What about if I want to
>> distribute
>> > those hacks to a number of museums that are using the same system?
>> What
>> > about if I fix some bugs and want to distribute those fixes to
>> > other
>> users?
>> >
>> > Now, which system do you think is more flexible? The free and open
>> source
>> > one, or your proprietary one?
>> >
>> > If you want systems that are scalable and flexible your only option
>> should
>> > be free and open source. Proprietary products are showing their
>> shortcomings
>> > time and again when it comes to performance, security and
>> reliability.
>> >
>> > As for evidence, check out the sea your history project
>> > http://www.seayourhistory.org.uk. Hosts 50,000+ multimedia assets,
>> images,
>> > sound, video, text and all on Joomla!. Hardly a simple, out-of-the-
>> box web
>> > site.
>> >
>> > Cheers
>> >
>> >
>> > Hayden
>> >
>> > On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 14:20:35 +0000, Dan Zambonini
>> <[log in to unmask]>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> First off, massive disclaimer/conflict of interest: my company
>makes
>> a CMS
>> >> (whose name I won't mention to lessen the conflict).
>> >>
>> >> I am a fan of open source systems, and use them myself on a number
>> of
>> >> personal websites. They're quick and do-the-job for a
>semi-technical
>> person
>> >> like myself who can tweak them to do what I need to run a blog or
>> simple
>> >> site.
>> >>
>> >> However, to say that they are "almost always going to be way
>> >> better
>> and more
>> >> flexible and extensible than any proprietary system" is
misleading.
>> >>
>> >> In the last few months, I've installed and used the most recent
>> version of
>> >> nearly every major open source PHP CMS I could find: Drupal,
>Joomla,
>> >> Wordpress MU, etc. (Our CMS is PHP, though commercial open source,
>> so this
>> >> was for competitive research).
>> >>
>> >> Each has pros and cons (I'd go as far to say that most of these
>> >> are
>> NOT
>> >> flexible and extensible, with the exception of Drupal), both
>> relative to
>> >> one-another and to commercial/commercial-open-source offerings. I
>> wouldn't
>> >> say that ANY of them were more flexible or extensible than our
>> offering, or
>> >> that of a number of our commercial competitors. Sure, some have
>more
>> >> modules, but this comes with its own drawbacks (Want an events
>> calendar?
>> >> Hey, why not look through 35 of them to see if any of them work!).
>> >>
>> >> This could turn into a heated debate, which I imagine might be
>> >> more
>> opinion
>> >> based than evidence based (in reality, how many of us have
>> >> actually
>> used all
>> >> the open source and commercial offerings out there?), so think
>> >> I'll
>> stop
>> >> now... But just wanted to put a word in for the other side!
>> >>
>> >> Dan
>> >>
>> >> PS I do *really* like Wordpress (for blogs) though. It rocks.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 11/11/2009 13:54, "Tom Jenkins"
>> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>> From: Museums Computer Group [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
>Behalf
>> Of
>> >>>> Michael Guthrie
>> >>>> Sent: 11 November 2009 12:52
>> >>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> >>>> Subject: Re: CMS recommendations
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Hi Karen
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I would say that using an Open Source solution like Joomla or
>> Drupal
>> >>> is
>> >>>> most advantageous, and doesn't lock you in to inflexible,
>> proprietary
>> >>>> and unnecessarily expensive licenses from vendors.
>> >>>
>> >>> Just wanted to say - absolutely second this. One of the top open
>> source
>> >>> system like Drupal or Joomla is almsot always going to be way
>> better and
>> >>> more flexible and extensible than any proprietary system, mainly
>> because
>> >>> of the huge critical mass the contributing communities for these
>> open
>> >>> source systems tend to gather.
>> >>
>> >> ----------------------------------------
>> >> Dan Zambonini
>> >> Box UK
>> >> Internet Development and Consultancy
>> >>
>> >> t: +44 (0)29 2022 8822
>> >> f: +44 (0)29 2022 8820
>> >> e: [log in to unmask]
>> >> w: http://www.boxuk.com
>> >> ----------------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Eight years in the making and more investment in usability than
>> >> any
>> other
>> >> Content Management System. Visit http://www.amaxus.com and find
>> >> out
>> why
>> >> hundreds of websites are powered by Amaxus.
>> >>
>> >> Registered Office Address: 6a Poland Street, London, W1F 8PT.
>> Registered in
>> >> England and Wales No. 3606919.
>> >>
>> >> Important Information: This message may contain confidential,
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>> please notify
>> >> the sender immediately and delete the message from your system.
>> >> You
>> should
>> >> not copy or use it for any purpose, nor disclose its contents to
>any
>> other
>> >> person.
>> >>
>> >> ****************************************************************
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>> >
>>
>> ----------------------------------------
>> Dan Zambonini
>> Box UK
>> Internet Development and Consultancy
>>
>> t: +44 (0)29 2022 8822
>> f: +44 (0)29 2022 8820
>> e: [log in to unmask]
>> w: http://www.boxuk.com
>> ----------------------------------------
>>
>> Eight years in the making and more investment in usability than any
>> other Content Management System. Visit http://www.amaxus.com and find
>> out
>why
>> hundreds of websites are powered by Amaxus.
>>
>> Registered Office Address: 6a Poland Street, London, W1F 8PT.
>> Registered in
>> England and Wales No. 3606919.
>>
>> Important Information: This message may contain confidential,
>> proprietary or privileged information. If you are not the intended
>> recipient, please notify the sender immediately and delete the
>> message from your system. You should not copy or use it for any
>> purpose, nor disclose its contents to any other person.
>>
>> ****************************************************************
>> For mcg information visit the mcg website at
>> http://www.museumscomputergroup.org.uk
>> To manage your subscription to this email list visit
>> http://www.museumscomputergroup.org.uk/email.shtml
>> ****************************************************************
>
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