Laughing is even better than laughing while fighting.
At 04:39 PM 10/2/2009, you wrote:
>As Stevie Smith (*English* poet and novelist) might've said: "Not
>fighting, laughing ..."
>
>Quoting Mark Weiss <[log in to unmask]>:
>
>>OK, that's not even remotely what I said. I should have thought that
>>context would make clear that the "it" I referred to was clearly the
>>Kent Johnson/Kenny Goldsmith brouhaha and not conceptualism per se.
>>But the predictable seems to be happening--less light, more heat.
>>I'm sincerely interested in whether there's something analogous
>>happening in Britain and Ireland these days, I apologize for my
>>ignorance and know no other way to alleviate it than by asking.
>>
>>But if you'd rather fight, let's take it outside. No reason to
>>bother the rest of the pub's patrons. B/c, please.
>>
>>Mark
>>
>>At 03:36 PM 10/2/2009, you wrote:
>>>Ridick! hombre. You're the one that suggested the impertinency of
>>>talk about the conceptual here, not me. What's not "British &
>>>Irish" about the conceptual?
>>>
>>>
>>>On Fri, 2 Oct 2009, Mark Weiss wrote:
>>>
>>>>I think my subsequent post covers this. Maybe you should say
>>>>what's B&I about the conceptual. I for one have no idea what's
>>>>going on in that regard in the UK and Ireland.
>>>>
>>>>Mark
>>>>
>>>>At 02:45 PM 10/2/2009, you wrote:
>>>>>Perfectly clear, and rather summarily proscriptive. My question,
>>>>>clear too: what's not "British and Irish" about the "conceptual"?
>>>>>
>>>>>On Fri, 2 Oct 2009, Mark Weiss wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Wrong venue for the discussion, as it has nothing to do with
>>>>>>British and Irish poetry. There are also lots of more
>>>>>>appropriate venues to which anyone can subscribe.
>>>>>>I should have thought that my meaning would be clear. It's not a
>>>>>>particularly complex concept.
>>>>>>Mark
>>>>>>At 01:58 PM 10/2/2009, you wrote:
>>>>>>>How, I wonder, could the "conceptual" have a "venue"?
>>>>>>>On Fri, 2 Oct 2009, Mark Weiss wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>It's simply the wrong venue.
>>>>>>>>At 01:13 PM 10/2/2009, you wrote:
>>>>>>>>>Mark, Kent suggested I post a few things for him. I won't
>>>>>>>>>post any more
>>>>>>>>>on this topic, given the lukewarm response.
>>>>>>>>>On Fri, 2 Oct 2009 09:48:59 -0400, Mark Weiss
>>>>>>>>><[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>Jeff: This is an awful lot of posts about
>>>>>>>>>>something incredibly trivial and at best mildly
>>>>>>>>>>amusing. It's also entirely divorced from British
>>>>>>>>>>and Irish poetry. Anyone here who wants to follow
>>>>>>>>>>the discussion could do so at poetryetc, where
>>>>>>>>>>you've been posting the identical posts. If
>>>>>>>>>>Britpo slides back into silence for a while, so
>>>>>>>>>>what? You may have noticed that almost nobody
>>>>>>>>>>here shows evidence of being interested, except
>>>>>>>>>>for a couple of Americans who are also on poetryetc.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Mark
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>At 07:11 AM 10/2/2009, you wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>Kent asked me to post this response to someone on the Digital
>>>>>>>>>>>Emunction blog:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>"OK, Brennen, but if it isn’t, then what is it I might
>>>>>>>>>have “plagiarized”?
>>>>>>>>>>>I’m not saying I haven’t, I’m just curious what you mean.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>I see that you are thinking about this at your blog in
>>>>>>>>>>>terms of recent
>>>>>>>>>art
>>>>>>>>>>>history and theory, quoting Danto, and I think that’s great (Kenny
>>>>>>>>>>>should think it’s great, too, since he’s supposedly all
>>>>>>>>>>>about reflection
>>>>>>>>>>>and discussion).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>In their writings on the Duchampian readymade and its neo-avant-
>>>>>>>>>garde
>>>>>>>>>>>recyclings, I find critics like Buchloh and Foster more
>>>>>>>>>>>interesting than
>>>>>>>>>>>Danto. Though they take strong exception to Burger’s
>>>>>>>>>>>wholesale dis
>>>>>>>>>>>missal of the neo-avant-garde, they’re also very critical
>>>>>>>>>>>of ways the
>>>>>>>>>>>great, original readymade move has been cut and pasted
>>>>>>>>>>>ad infinitum
>>>>>>>>>>>into the art market since, say, Nouveau realisme
>>>>>>>>>>>recycled gestures
>>>>>>>>>>>with this or that generic tweak or novelty, that is,
>>>>>>>>>>>emptied of any
>>>>>>>>>radi
>>>>>>>>>>>cal, anti-​institutional charge
>>>>>>>>>>>ready-​made, as it were, for rapid capture
>>>>>>>>>>>and incorporation by the networks of “Museum Culture.”
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>This recycling, I’d say, is transparently the case with
>>>>>>>>>>>the work of
>>>>>>>>>Kenny
>>>>>>>>>>>Goldsmith (Goldsmith and Bok, to be sure, who despite their
>>>>>>>>>polemics
>>>>>>>>>>>for the benefits of ego-​less
>>>>>>>>>>>“uncreativity” seem to have been drunk for
>>>>>>>>>>>the past few years on some kind of secret Author Function
>>>>>>>>>>>Ego Juice,
>>>>>>>>>>>are quite exuberantly open about their desire for the
>>>>>>>>>>>Museum). KG’s
>>>>>>>>>>>work is “uncreative” and “boring” not just as affective
>>>>>>>>>>>extension of its
>>>>>>>>>>>proclaimed poetic and “ontological” premises; it’s uncreative and
>>>>>>>>>boring
>>>>>>>>>>>because it’s so damn old hat: an attempted
>>>>>>>>>>>importation of decades-​old
>>>>>>>>>>>gestures into a Po-​Biz scene that, as
>>>>>>>>>>>Goldsmith himself puts it, “is forty
>>>>>>>>>>>years behind art,” and thus likely (at least part of its
>>>>>>>>>>>crowd) to take
>>>>>>>>>>>his “conceptual” banalities as exciting and new. In some
>>>>>>>>>>>circles, they
>>>>>>>>>>>call it snake oil.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>But it’s MY Day, Brennen, that is truly new, you see. The
>>>>>>>>>>>Authentic
>>>>>>>>>>>Item. Because no one has ever done it quite like this before. I’ve
>>>>>>>>>taken
>>>>>>>>>>>his whole bookum and made it mine, in single decisive act.
>>>>>>>>>>>And doing
>>>>>>>>>>>so, I’ve put his plagiarized bookum into the
>>>>>>>>>>>dustbin of sub-​poetic sub-​
>>>>>>>>>>>history. I am being both funny and serious, in saying
>>>>>>>>>>>that. Doubled in
>>>>>>>>>>>my intent, so to speak, like the red-​hot “Doubled K” poker
>>>>>>>>>that K.
>>>>>>>>>>>dreamily mentions in his blurb to my Day, where he acknowledges
>>>>>>>>>me,
>>>>>>>>>>>his mirrored K, as his master. And it’s why he’s going to
>>>>>>>>>>>put my book
>>>>>>>>>up
>>>>>>>>>>>on UbuWeb.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>And one more thing, though here I’m not kidding around: What they
>>>>>>>>>>>call “Conceptual poetry”? It’s forty years behind Broodthaers and
>>>>>>>>>Institu
>>>>>>>>>>>tional Critique.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Kent"
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban
>>>>>>>>>>Poetry (University of California Press).
>>>>>>>>>>Forthcoming in November 2009 2009.
>>>>>>>>>>To read more go to: http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>"The Whole Island is a masterwork of cartography:
>>>>>>>>>>a map of what is, for English-language readers,
>>>>>>>>>>an almost unexplored territory, full of poets--at
>>>>>>>>>>home and in the diaspora--whom we ought to know."
>>>>>>>>>> -Eliot
>>>>>>>>>>Weinberger
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>"A definitive anthology guiding curious poets,
>>>>>>>>>>literary scholars and teachers, and generations of
>>>>>>>>>>readers out of the shadow of ignorant,
>>>>>>>>>>imperialist 'lockdown' surrounding the breadth and power of
>>>>>>>>>>Cuban poetry. [Weiss] provides a salient,
>>>>>>>>>>comprehensive introduction covering the fascinating vidas
>>>>>>>>>>of individual poets, literary movements,
>>>>>>>>>>political exigencies, and the vicissitudes of an ongoing cultural
>>>>>>>>>>struggle. But the imagination of the poetry
>>>>>>>>>>rules. What emerges is an essential compendium to
>>>>>>>>>>world literature. Presente!"
>>>>>>>>>> -Anne
>>>>>>>>>>Waldman
>>>>>>>>Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry
>>>>>>>>(University of California Press).
>>>>>>>>Forthcoming in November 2009 2009.
>>>>>>>>To read more go to: http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland
>>>>>>>>"The Whole Island is a masterwork of cartography: a map of
>>>>>>>>what is, for English-language readers,
>>>>>>>>an almost unexplored territory, full of poets--at home and in
>>>>>>>>the diaspora--whom we ought to know."
>>>>>>>>-Eliot Weinberger
>>>>>>>>"A definitive anthology guiding curious poets, literary
>>>>>>>>scholars and teachers, and generations of
>>>>>>>>readers out of the shadow of ignorant, imperialist 'lockdown'
>>>>>>>>surrounding the breadth and power of
>>>>>>>>Cuban poetry. [Weiss] provides a salient, comprehensive
>>>>>>>>introduction covering the fascinating vidas
>>>>>>>>of individual poets, literary movements, political exigencies,
>>>>>>>>and the vicissitudes of an ongoing cultural
>>>>>>>>struggle. But the imagination of the poetry rules. What
>>>>>>>>emerges is an essential compendium to
>>>>>>>>world literature. Presente!"
>>>>>>>>-Anne Waldman
>>>>>>>Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry
>>>>>>>(University of California Press).
>>>>>>>Forthcoming in November 2009 2009.
>>>>>>>To read more go to: http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland
>>>>>>>"The Whole Island is a masterwork of cartography: a map of what
>>>>>>>is, for English-language readers,
>>>>>>>an almost unexplored territory, full of poets--at home and in
>>>>>>>the diaspora--whom we ought to know."
>>>>>>>-Eliot Weinberger
>>>>>>>"A definitive anthology guiding curious poets, literary
>>>>>>>scholars and teachers, and generations of
>>>>>>>readers out of the shadow of ignorant, imperialist 'lockdown'
>>>>>>>surrounding the breadth and power of
>>>>>>>Cuban poetry. [Weiss] provides a salient, comprehensive
>>>>>>>introduction covering the fascinating vidas
>>>>>>>of individual poets, literary movements, political exigencies,
>>>>>>>and the vicissitudes of an ongoing cultural
>>>>>>>struggle. But the imagination of the poetry rules. What emerges
>>>>>>>is an essential compendium to
>>>>>>>world literature. Presente!"
>>>>>>>-Anne Waldman
>>>>>Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry
>>>>>(University of California Press).
>>>>>Forthcoming in November 2009 2009.
>>>>>To read more go to: http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland
>>>>>"The Whole Island is a masterwork of cartography: a map of what
>>>>>is, for English-language readers,
>>>>>an almost unexplored territory, full of poets--at home and in the
>>>>>diaspora--whom we ought to know."
>>>>>-Eliot Weinberger
>>>>>"A definitive anthology guiding curious poets, literary scholars
>>>>>and teachers, and generations of
>>>>>readers out of the shadow of ignorant, imperialist 'lockdown'
>>>>>surrounding the breadth and power of
>>>>>Cuban poetry. [Weiss] provides a salient, comprehensive
>>>>>introduction covering the fascinating vidas
>>>>>of individual poets, literary movements, political exigencies,
>>>>>and the vicissitudes of an ongoing cultural
>>>>>struggle. But the imagination of the poetry rules. What emerges
>>>>>is an essential compendium to
>>>>>world literature. Presente!"
>>>>>-Anne Waldman
>>>>
>>>
>>>Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry
>>>(University of California Press).
>>>Forthcoming in November 2009 2009.
>>>To read more go to: http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland
>>>
>>>"The Whole Island is a masterwork of cartography: a map of what is,
>>>for English-language readers,
>>>an almost unexplored territory, full of poets--at home and in the
>>>diaspora--whom we ought to know."
>>>
>>>-Eliot Weinberger
>>>
>>>"A definitive anthology guiding curious poets, literary scholars
>>>and teachers, and generations of
>>>readers out of the shadow of ignorant, imperialist 'lockdown'
>>>surrounding the breadth and power of
>>>Cuban poetry. [Weiss] provides a salient, comprehensive
>>>introduction covering the fascinating vidas
>>>of individual poets, literary movements, political exigencies, and
>>>the vicissitudes of an ongoing cultural
>>>struggle. But the imagination of the poetry rules. What emerges is
>>>an essential compendium to
>>>world literature. Presente!"
>>>
>>>-Anne Waldman
>>
>>
>
>Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of
>Cuban Poetry (University of California Press).
>Forthcoming in November 2009 2009.
>To read more go to: http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland
>
>"The Whole Island is a masterwork of
>cartography: a map of what is, for English-language readers,
>an almost unexplored territory, full of
>poets--at home and in the diaspora--whom we ought to know."
>
>-Eliot Weinberger
>
>"A definitive anthology guiding curious poets,
>literary scholars and teachers, and generations of
>readers out of the shadow of ignorant,
>imperialist 'lockdown' surrounding the breadth and power of
>Cuban poetry. [Weiss] provides a salient,
>comprehensive introduction covering the fascinating vidas
>of individual poets, literary movements,
>political exigencies, and the vicissitudes of an ongoing cultural
>struggle. But the imagination of the poetry
>rules. What emerges is an essential compendium to
>world literature. Presente!"
>
>-Anne Waldman
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