Well the word was a 15 th century modification of an adverb, so why
should students today not modify a preposition to a verb? I rather like
it. The notion is rather cute: "I did not like his awful hat so I
decided to minus it from his head". We know what a student means when
they say I minused one number from another, so why are we fussed, upset,
or outraged? Language changes, ladies and gentlemen. I guess you just do
not like it being changed by your students - maybe you'd be happier of
the editor of Merriam-Webster changed it first?
Gary Davis
Ralph A. Raimi wrote:
> On Sat, 10 Oct 2009, Jonathan Groves wrote:
>
>> Barbara Wendell wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I teach 8th grade science and am continually amazed
>>> at the number of students who write the following:
>>>
>>> I would minus this number by the first number to get
>>> my answer.
>
> I'm not a classroom teacher and yet I have seen this usage. It is
> of the form, "I would diminish this number by (subtracting) the first
> number, to get my answer."
>
> Also, the usage, "I would minus this number [not "by" anything
> named] ..." seems to mean, "I would change the sign on this number."
>
>
> There must be teachers somewhere who think it is easier to say
> things this way than to use more standard English, but since it is
> non-standard I would feel justified in telling students it is
> non-standard, and give them examples of the proper way to say these
> things. And write a few things on the board, like "A-3B", giving it
> the correct pronunciation (Ay [pronounced as in "pay"] minus three
> Bee"). And then, if the exercise calls for saying without symbols what
> this means, I would write on the board, "We are multiplying B by three
> and subtracting the result from A" And tell them that from now on you
> will call their previous usage wrong, wrong, wrong. "Minus" is not a
> transitive verb, but is a conjunction, like "or", "and", and "plus".
>
> You can be confident that mathematicians don't use "minus" as a verb.
>
>
>>>
>>> First of all the word minus cannot be used in this
>>> fashion but the "by" issue is one that confounds me.
>>> Am I crazy in thinking that this is incorrect? You
>>> u would only use the word by if you were talking
>>> about multiplication. In my mind, the only correct
>>> options are: 1) I would subtract the first number
>>> from this number to get my answer or 2) I would take
>>> the difference between these numbers to get my
>>> answer.
>>>
>>> It's driving me crazy.
>>
>>
>> Good question, Barbara. The word "by" can be used for division
>> as well (which is, of course, defined in terms of multiplication
>> anyway) such as in "Divide 14 by 2." As far as I know, "by" is not
>> used with addition and subtraction. I've yet to have seen anyone say
>> that this word can be used with addition and subtraction; if were
>> considered acceptable to do so, I most likely would have seen it
>> already.
>>
>> I definitely agree that you cannot minus one number by another. "Minus"
>> can be used as a verb but only in sentences such as "Five minus two
>> equals
>> three."
>>
>> I teach college math but not K-12 math. But I have seen many
>> students abuse
>> mathematical language and notation, but I don't recall anyone saying
>> what you
>> have described here. The most common errors I see are equals signs
>> being used
>> to mean "the next step is" rather than to mean that the numbers are
>> the same
>> and the word "equation" being used instead of "expression." I also
>> see "solve
>> expressions" all the time, and I try to tell my students that you
>> evaluate
>> expressions and solve equations but that you cannot solve an expression.
>> Sometimes it works, but my efforts fail more often than they succeed.
>>
>> I think the problem is that they have trouble understanding the precise
>> meanings of words in mathematics and the precise rules for their use
>> and that they have trouble understanding the need for this precision in
>> mathematics. And they have trouble with language anyway; I don't
>> think it
>> is a coincidence that they struggle with grammar and punctuation and
>> writing
>> style and also struggle with mathematical notation and language.
>>
>> Jonathan Groves
>>
>
> Ralph A. Raimi Tel. 585 275 4429 or (home) 585 244 9368
> Dept. of Mathematics, Univ.of Rochester, Rochester, NY 14627
> <http://www.math.rochester.edu/people/faculty/rarm/>
>
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