As Stevie Smith (*English* poet and novelist) might've said: "Not
fighting, laughing ..."
Quoting Mark Weiss <[log in to unmask]>:
> OK, that's not even remotely what I said. I should have thought that
> context would make clear that the "it" I referred to was clearly the
> Kent Johnson/Kenny Goldsmith brouhaha and not conceptualism per se.
> But the predictable seems to be happening--less light, more heat.
> I'm sincerely interested in whether there's something analogous
> happening in Britain and Ireland these days, I apologize for my
> ignorance and know no other way to alleviate it than by asking.
>
> But if you'd rather fight, let's take it outside. No reason to
> bother the rest of the pub's patrons. B/c, please.
>
> Mark
>
> At 03:36 PM 10/2/2009, you wrote:
>> Ridick! hombre. You're the one that suggested the impertinency of
>> talk about the conceptual here, not me. What's not "British &
>> Irish" about the conceptual?
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 2 Oct 2009, Mark Weiss wrote:
>>
>>> I think my subsequent post covers this. Maybe you should say
>>> what's B&I about the conceptual. I for one have no idea what's
>>> going on in that regard in the UK and Ireland.
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>> At 02:45 PM 10/2/2009, you wrote:
>>>> Perfectly clear, and rather summarily proscriptive. My question,
>>>> clear too: what's not "British and Irish" about the "conceptual"?
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, 2 Oct 2009, Mark Weiss wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Wrong venue for the discussion, as it has nothing to do with
>>>>> British and Irish poetry. There are also lots of more
>>>>> appropriate venues to which anyone can subscribe.
>>>>> I should have thought that my meaning would be clear. It's not a
>>>>> particularly complex concept.
>>>>> Mark
>>>>> At 01:58 PM 10/2/2009, you wrote:
>>>>>> How, I wonder, could the "conceptual" have a "venue"?
>>>>>> On Fri, 2 Oct 2009, Mark Weiss wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's simply the wrong venue.
>>>>>>> At 01:13 PM 10/2/2009, you wrote:
>>>>>>>> Mark, Kent suggested I post a few things for him. I won't
>>>>>>>> post any more
>>>>>>>> on this topic, given the lukewarm response.
>>>>>>>> On Fri, 2 Oct 2009 09:48:59 -0400, Mark Weiss
>>>>>>>> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Jeff: This is an awful lot of posts about
>>>>>>>>> something incredibly trivial and at best mildly
>>>>>>>>> amusing. It's also entirely divorced from British
>>>>>>>>> and Irish poetry. Anyone here who wants to follow
>>>>>>>>> the discussion could do so at poetryetc, where
>>>>>>>>> you've been posting the identical posts. If
>>>>>>>>> Britpo slides back into silence for a while, so
>>>>>>>>> what? You may have noticed that almost nobody
>>>>>>>>> here shows evidence of being interested, except
>>>>>>>>> for a couple of Americans who are also on poetryetc.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Mark
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> At 07:11 AM 10/2/2009, you wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Kent asked me to post this response to someone on the Digital
>>>>>>>>>> Emunction blog:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "OK, Brennen, but if it isn’t, then what is it I might
>>>>>>>> have “plagiarized”?
>>>>>>>>>> I’m not saying I haven’t, I’m just curious what you mean.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I see that you are thinking about this at your blog in
>>>>>>>>>> terms of recent
>>>>>>>> art
>>>>>>>>>> history and theory, quoting Danto, and I think that’s great (Kenny
>>>>>>>>>> should think it’s great, too, since he’s supposedly all
>>>>>>>>>> about reflection
>>>>>>>>>> and discussion).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In their writings on the Duchampian readymade and its neo-avant-
>>>>>>>> garde
>>>>>>>>>> recyclings, I find critics like Buchloh and Foster more
>>>>>>>>>> interesting than
>>>>>>>>>> Danto. Though they take strong exception to Burger’s
>>>>>>>>>> wholesale dis
>>>>>>>>>> missal of the neo-avant-garde, they’re also very critical
>>>>>>>>>> of ways the
>>>>>>>>>> great, original readymade move has been cut and pasted
>>>>>>>>>> ad infinitum
>>>>>>>>>> into the art market since, say, Nouveau realisme
>>>>>>>>>> recycled gestures
>>>>>>>>>> with this or that generic tweak or novelty, that is,
>>>>>>>>>> emptied of any
>>>>>>>> radi
>>>>>>>>>> cal, anti-​institutional charge
>>>>>>>>>> ready-​made, as it were, for rapid capture
>>>>>>>>>> and incorporation by the networks of “Museum Culture.”
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This recycling, I’d say, is transparently the case with
>>>>>>>>>> the work of
>>>>>>>> Kenny
>>>>>>>>>> Goldsmith (Goldsmith and Bok, to be sure, who despite their
>>>>>>>> polemics
>>>>>>>>>> for the benefits of ego-​less
>>>>>>>>>> “uncreativity” seem to have been drunk for
>>>>>>>>>> the past few years on some kind of secret Author Function
>>>>>>>>>> Ego Juice,
>>>>>>>>>> are quite exuberantly open about their desire for the
>>>>>>>>>> Museum). KG’s
>>>>>>>>>> work is “uncreative” and “boring” not just as affective
>>>>>>>>>> extension of its
>>>>>>>>>> proclaimed poetic and “ontological” premises; it’s uncreative and
>>>>>>>> boring
>>>>>>>>>> because it’s so damn old hat: an attempted
>>>>>>>>>> importation of decades-​old
>>>>>>>>>> gestures into a Po-​Biz scene that, as
>>>>>>>>>> Goldsmith himself puts it, “is forty
>>>>>>>>>> years behind art,” and thus likely (at least part of its
>>>>>>>>>> crowd) to take
>>>>>>>>>> his “conceptual” banalities as exciting and new. In some
>>>>>>>>>> circles, they
>>>>>>>>>> call it snake oil.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But it’s MY Day, Brennen, that is truly new, you see. The
>>>>>>>>>> Authentic
>>>>>>>>>> Item. Because no one has ever done it quite like this before. I’ve
>>>>>>>> taken
>>>>>>>>>> his whole bookum and made it mine, in single decisive act.
>>>>>>>>>> And doing
>>>>>>>>>> so, I’ve put his plagiarized bookum into the
>>>>>>>>>> dustbin of sub-​poetic sub-​
>>>>>>>>>> history. I am being both funny and serious, in saying
>>>>>>>>>> that. Doubled in
>>>>>>>>>> my intent, so to speak, like the red-​hot “Doubled K” poker
>>>>>>>> that K.
>>>>>>>>>> dreamily mentions in his blurb to my Day, where he acknowledges
>>>>>>>> me,
>>>>>>>>>> his mirrored K, as his master. And it’s why he’s going to
>>>>>>>>>> put my book
>>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>>>>> on UbuWeb.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And one more thing, though here I’m not kidding around: What they
>>>>>>>>>> call “Conceptual poetry”? It’s forty years behind Broodthaers and
>>>>>>>> Institu
>>>>>>>>>> tional Critique.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Kent"
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban
>>>>>>>>> Poetry (University of California Press).
>>>>>>>>> Forthcoming in November 2009 2009.
>>>>>>>>> To read more go to: http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "The Whole Island is a masterwork of cartography:
>>>>>>>>> a map of what is, for English-language readers,
>>>>>>>>> an almost unexplored territory, full of poets--at
>>>>>>>>> home and in the diaspora--whom we ought to know."
>>>>>>>>> -Eliot
>>>>>>>>> Weinberger
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "A definitive anthology guiding curious poets,
>>>>>>>>> literary scholars and teachers, and generations of
>>>>>>>>> readers out of the shadow of ignorant,
>>>>>>>>> imperialist 'lockdown' surrounding the breadth and power of
>>>>>>>>> Cuban poetry. [Weiss] provides a salient,
>>>>>>>>> comprehensive introduction covering the fascinating vidas
>>>>>>>>> of individual poets, literary movements,
>>>>>>>>> political exigencies, and the vicissitudes of an ongoing cultural
>>>>>>>>> struggle. But the imagination of the poetry
>>>>>>>>> rules. What emerges is an essential compendium to
>>>>>>>>> world literature. Presente!"
>>>>>>>>> -Anne
>>>>>>>>> Waldman
>>>>>>> Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry
>>>>>>> (University of California Press).
>>>>>>> Forthcoming in November 2009 2009.
>>>>>>> To read more go to: http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland
>>>>>>> "The Whole Island is a masterwork of cartography: a map of
>>>>>>> what is, for English-language readers,
>>>>>>> an almost unexplored territory, full of poets--at home and in
>>>>>>> the diaspora--whom we ought to know."
>>>>>>> -Eliot Weinberger
>>>>>>> "A definitive anthology guiding curious poets, literary
>>>>>>> scholars and teachers, and generations of
>>>>>>> readers out of the shadow of ignorant, imperialist 'lockdown'
>>>>>>> surrounding the breadth and power of
>>>>>>> Cuban poetry. [Weiss] provides a salient, comprehensive
>>>>>>> introduction covering the fascinating vidas
>>>>>>> of individual poets, literary movements, political exigencies,
>>>>>>> and the vicissitudes of an ongoing cultural
>>>>>>> struggle. But the imagination of the poetry rules. What
>>>>>>> emerges is an essential compendium to
>>>>>>> world literature. Presente!"
>>>>>>> -Anne Waldman
>>>>>> Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry
>>>>>> (University of California Press).
>>>>>> Forthcoming in November 2009 2009.
>>>>>> To read more go to: http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland
>>>>>> "The Whole Island is a masterwork of cartography: a map of what
>>>>>> is, for English-language readers,
>>>>>> an almost unexplored territory, full of poets--at home and in
>>>>>> the diaspora--whom we ought to know."
>>>>>> -Eliot Weinberger
>>>>>> "A definitive anthology guiding curious poets, literary
>>>>>> scholars and teachers, and generations of
>>>>>> readers out of the shadow of ignorant, imperialist 'lockdown'
>>>>>> surrounding the breadth and power of
>>>>>> Cuban poetry. [Weiss] provides a salient, comprehensive
>>>>>> introduction covering the fascinating vidas
>>>>>> of individual poets, literary movements, political exigencies,
>>>>>> and the vicissitudes of an ongoing cultural
>>>>>> struggle. But the imagination of the poetry rules. What emerges
>>>>>> is an essential compendium to
>>>>>> world literature. Presente!"
>>>>>> -Anne Waldman
>>>> Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry
>>>> (University of California Press).
>>>> Forthcoming in November 2009 2009.
>>>> To read more go to: http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland
>>>> "The Whole Island is a masterwork of cartography: a map of what
>>>> is, for English-language readers,
>>>> an almost unexplored territory, full of poets--at home and in the
>>>> diaspora--whom we ought to know."
>>>> -Eliot Weinberger
>>>> "A definitive anthology guiding curious poets, literary scholars
>>>> and teachers, and generations of
>>>> readers out of the shadow of ignorant, imperialist 'lockdown'
>>>> surrounding the breadth and power of
>>>> Cuban poetry. [Weiss] provides a salient, comprehensive
>>>> introduction covering the fascinating vidas
>>>> of individual poets, literary movements, political exigencies,
>>>> and the vicissitudes of an ongoing cultural
>>>> struggle. But the imagination of the poetry rules. What emerges
>>>> is an essential compendium to
>>>> world literature. Presente!"
>>>> -Anne Waldman
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Announcing The Whole Island: Six Decades of Cuban Poetry
>> (University of California Press).
>> Forthcoming in November 2009 2009.
>> To read more go to: http://go.ucpress.edu/WholeIsland
>>
>> "The Whole Island is a masterwork of cartography: a map of what is,
>> for English-language readers,
>> an almost unexplored territory, full of poets--at home and in the
>> diaspora--whom we ought to know."
>>
>> -Eliot Weinberger
>>
>> "A definitive anthology guiding curious poets, literary scholars
>> and teachers, and generations of
>> readers out of the shadow of ignorant, imperialist 'lockdown'
>> surrounding the breadth and power of
>> Cuban poetry. [Weiss] provides a salient, comprehensive
>> introduction covering the fascinating vidas
>> of individual poets, literary movements, political exigencies, and
>> the vicissitudes of an ongoing cultural
>> struggle. But the imagination of the poetry rules. What emerges is
>> an essential compendium to
>> world literature. Presente!"
>>
>> -Anne Waldman
>
>
>
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