Christiano
Yes, it's the higher resolution ones in the xbap (Vista/.NET) version
that are encrypted. It's that decision on what is worth protecting
from who.
We didn't do tiled zoom yet for books, although we have done it for
larger, single-sheet items (eg maps). I don't think anyone's got those
online yet though (just kiosks).
Adding tiled zoom/progressive download for books is on the list...
Email me off-list if you want to know more.
Michael
=========================
Michael Stocking
Managing Director
Armadillo Systems
300 Kensal Road
London W10 5BE
+44 (0)20 8960 8600
[log in to unmask]
www.armadillosystems.com
www.turningthepages.com
http://digitalcultureonline.blogspot.com/
On 23 Sep 2009, at 11:44, Cristiano Bianchi | Keepthinking wrote:
> Dear Michael,
>
> I didn't try the Shockwave version or Turning the Pages, but in the
> Silverlight one your content seems to be unencrypted:
> http://ttpadd.bl.uk/ttp_cw/bookdata/books/14448fd3-dc22-430c-98df-7f4b8e237657/sl_med/Arbuthnott_med_p6.png
>
> Did you do any tiled zoom? Again, on the Silverlight version the
> zoom seems to be static - hence it does not refine the image based
> on progressive download.
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Cristiano
>
>
>
> On 23 Sep 2009, at 11:09, Michael Stocking wrote:
>
>> We took the third approach when building Turning the Pages with the
>> BL. All files are encrypted and then decrypted on the fly in the
>> app, so even if you poke around in the cache and could figure out
>> that a .ttp file is just an alias for another format, you'd never
>> get the whole file. Not so hard.
>>
>> We thought it was a basic decision on who you're trying to protect
>> files from - casual digital pickpockets or determined "thieves".
>>
>> There's been some interesting discussion on this over at the MCN
>> list regarding the commercial loss of any stolen images, which in
>> turn raises the whole licensing debate. Which I know almost nothing
>> about...
>>
>> Hope this helps.
>>
>> Michael
>> =========================
>> Michael Stocking
>> Managing Director
>> Armadillo Systems
>> 300 Kensal Road
>> London W10 5BE
>> +44 (0)20 8960 8600
>> [log in to unmask]
>> www.armadillosystems.com
>> www.turningthepages.com
>> http://digitalcultureonline.blogspot.com/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 23 Sep 2009, at 10:58, Cristiano Bianchi | Keepthinking wrote:
>>
>>> Dan, Frankie, thanks for your suggestions.
>>>
>>> A few things come to mind:
>>>
>>> - Dan, of course you are right: anything that is on a screen is
>>> out for grabbing - the issue is how easy you make it to grab. I
>>> think any of our client would be prepared to give the images away
>>> to 'thieves' who patiently reconstruct them screen grab after
>>> screen grab.
>>> - To increase security if I had to do a custom designed tool, I'd
>>> probably put the file names for the tiles in a database, rather
>>> than relying on a naming convention, which, however clever, can be
>>> decoded - so a tool to automatically grab the images could be
>>> developed by someone with the right skills. Even Silverlight grabs
>>> images over an open connection - as Firebug will testify.
>>> - Another approach may be to encrypt the images and decrypt them
>>> on the fly, so that whoever gets to the encrypted files won't be
>>> able to use them, but to be honest we never seriously looked into
>>> this and I'm not sure it can be done - it would require a fair
>>> amount of effort in any case.
>>>
>>> So is the bottom line: if you don't want people to steal them do
>>> not publish them...?
>>>
>>> Best, Cristiano
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 23 Sep 2009, at 09:56, Frankie Roberto wrote:
>>>
>>>> James is right - the wikipedia case used an automated tool (you'd
>>>> have to be
>>>> pretty patient to assemble the images from screengrabs). However,
>>>> any
>>>> systems that displays high-res images by splitting them into
>>>> tiles is going
>>>> to be vulnerable to this kind of exploitation - stitching tiles
>>>> back
>>>> together again automatically is fairly trivial, so long as you
>>>> can figure
>>>> out the naming scheme.
>>>>
>>>> As an example, here's a particularly fetching bit of shoulder
>>>> from *Christ
>>>> in the House of His Parents*:
>>>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/desperateromantics/paintings/assets/zif/e50f7643ffea2bb8f12bb8b8708c6211-christ452895102/1/tile.4-5.jpg
>>>>
>>>> It should be remembered, though, that the main reason for
>>>> splitting high-res
>>>> images into tiles is for usability/performance reasons (it'd take
>>>> ages to
>>>> download the whole image in high multiple zoom factors, and would
>>>> probably
>>>> run really slowly in most browsers, eating up system memory). The
>>>> security-by-obscurity is just a side effect (you wouldn't do this
>>>> with
>>>> text!).
>>>>
>>>> The main reason I gave -1 for using Flash over javascript though
>>>> is that,
>>>> whilst nearly all desktop browsers have some version of the Flash
>>>> plugin
>>>> (and the latest version of Firefox helpfully encourages people to
>>>> upgrade),
>>>> some devices like the iPhone, small netbooks, and the One Laptop
>>>> Per Child
>>>> 'xo' (of which over 1 million have been distributed to children
>>>> in poor
>>>> areas) aren't Flash capable.
>>>>
>>>> As for javascript-based solutions, there are a few around, and I
>>>> think there
>>>> was a discussion on this list about them only a few months back.
>>>> The one
>>>> I'm most familiar with is OpenLayers (http://openlayers.org/),
>>>> which is
>>>> designed for map tiles, but works equally well with photo tiles
>>>> (and is free
>>>> and open source). It's also pretty stable and well documented,
>>>> and has a
>>>> full javascript API - however there's a bit of a learning curve.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, well done to the BBC (and their museum collaborators) for
>>>> making
>>>> such a nice, high-production-values site. I'm not normally a fan
>>>> of old oil
>>>> paintings, but the website (and the TV show) got me interested.
>>>> It seems
>>>> that fiction (and dramatised history) loves to use museums and
>>>> galleries as
>>>> a setting (I'm thinking also of the Da Vinci Code, which is also
>>>> used as an
>>>> example of linked data at http://www.freebase.com/). I wonder if
>>>> there are
>>>> ways that museums and galleries could exploit this interest more
>>>> (the Louvre
>>>> does a nice line in Da Vinci Code tours: http://bit.ly/Y5s3e)?
>>>>
>>>> Frankie
>>>>
>>>> 2009/9/23 James Morley <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>
>>>>> From what I understand in the NPG case it was all accomplished
>>>>> using an
>>>>> established, readily available, and totally automated tool to
>>>>> reconstruct
>>>>> high-res images from Zoomify tiles, all using data that is
>>>>> visible in the
>>>>> source code, and files in a named directory structure (and one I
>>>>> don't think
>>>>> you can change).
>>>>>
>>>>> But if you did a more bespoke tool and/or hid your urls more
>>>>> cleverly then
>>>>> that would have to be a major deterrent. Even though
>>>>> technically someone
>>>>> would be able to grab them (either underlying files or screen
>>>>> grab), the
>>>>> thought of manually doing this should be daunting enough to most
>>>>> potential
>>>>> 'thieves', surely?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> James Morley [log in to unmask]
>>>>> Website Manager Tel. +44 (0)20 8332 5759
>>>>> Royal Botanic Gardens, Kew www.kew.org
>>>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> ________________________________________
>>>>> From: Museums Computer Group [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Dan
>>>>> Zambonini [[log in to unmask]]
>>>>> Sent: 23 September 2009 08:55
>>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>> Subject: Re: BBC Desperate Romantics paintings
>>>>>
>>>>>> As a side issue, you rate it 10 for not using Silverlight and
>>>>>> -1 for
>>>>>> using Flash over JS.
>>>>>> But have you (or anyone) found a good JS solution for doing
>>>>>> similar
>>>>>> things (progressive zoom)?
>>>>>
>>>>> The (bespoke) JS zoom tool we built for the National Gallery does
>>>>> progressive zoom, and is also fairly accessible (has keyboard
>>>>> shortcuts,
>>>>> degrades gracefully):
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/vincent-van-gogh-sunflowers
>>>>>
>>>>>> My guess is that any tool of this kind will need access to a
>>>>>> folder
>>>>>> where the images are - which are in this case open to
>>>>>> exploitation,
>>>>>> unless they were stored as binaries objects in a DB.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is NO way of stopping the exploitation; if you have to
>>>>> display the
>>>>> individual tiles to the end user, then they can screen-grab them
>>>>> and
>>>>> re-assemble them into the larger file (like in the Wikipedia
>>>>> case, as far
>>>>> as
>>>>> I understand it), no matter how they are stored/transmitted/
>>>>> displayed.
>>>>> Putting any attempts at preventative measures into these tools,
>>>>> which might
>>>>> aversely affect performance or usability for the vast majority
>>>>> of 'legal'
>>>>> users, seems (to me) to be a bad idea.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just my 2p.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dan
>>>>>
>>>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>>> Dan Zambonini
>>>>> Box UK
>>>>> Internet Development and Consultancy
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Frankie Roberto
>>>> Experience Designer, Rattle
>>>> 0114 2706977
>>>> http://www.rattlecentral.com
>>>>
>>>> ****************************************************************
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Cristiano Bianchi
>>> Keepthinking
>>>
>>> Bull Inn Court
>>> 15 Maiden Lane
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>>
>>
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>
>
>
> --
>
> Cristiano Bianchi
> Keepthinking
>
> Bull Inn Court
> 15 Maiden Lane
> London WC2E 7NG
>
> t. +44 20 7240 8014
> f. +44 20 7240 8015
> m. +44 7939 041169 (uk)
> m. +39 329 533 4469 (it)
>
> NEW: Bologna +39 051 0547918
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