JiscMail Logo
Email discussion lists for the UK Education and Research communities

Help for BRITISH-IRISH-POETS Archives


BRITISH-IRISH-POETS Archives

BRITISH-IRISH-POETS Archives


BRITISH-IRISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

BRITISH-IRISH-POETS Home

BRITISH-IRISH-POETS Home

BRITISH-IRISH-POETS  August 2009

BRITISH-IRISH-POETS August 2009

Options

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password

Subject:

Re: "Has British Poetry had any significance since Wordsworth?"

From:

Jeffrey Side <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

British & Irish poets <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 28 Aug 2009 18:18:41 +0100

Content-Type:

multipart/mixed

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (91 lines) , CHAPTER 4.doc (91 lines)

Jamie, and others,

I have attached chapter 4 of my thesis. I don't expect it of convince 
anyone, but it has been requested, so I can but oblige.






On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 14:03:09 +0100, Jamie McKendrick 
<[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>I can sympathize with Pierre's "mounting irritation" with this whole 
discussion, though slightly resent his dismissal of it as having "just 
opinion" as its "core mode of proposal & response". I've none of his 
wide experience of e-fora - but have at times "skimmed through", or 
read more carefully, a number of such discussions without ever 
bothering to enter the fray. My irritation has only on three prolonged 
and time-consuming occasions been vented (twice, as it happens, with 
Jeff!) and in each of these cases when I believed a poet or a kind of 
poetry was being unjustly treated. Though this may look like a claim for 
noble motives, I'm afraid it isn't entirely so - there's also been an 
element of unsuppressable annoyance. Whilst I see that there's been a 
fair amount of "just instant irritated comeback snapping", this hasn't by 
any means been the the only mode of response or counter-response - 
Peter's considered posts on French and other poetry, Mark's witty 
attempts to elicit some kind of anchoring detail, as just two examples. 
The discussion seems to have touched on a number of interesting 
areas - maybe superficially - but isn't "instant" in the nature of 
conversations which lists in a way are bound to resemble, and even 
if "irritated comeback snapping" are likely to be a feature of these 
conversations the hope is that something more interesting might 
develop from them? 
>   A few days back I suggested Jeff used his blog to present the (for 
many of us) missing bits of the argument. I still think this a good idea - 
shorter anyway than having to read entire chapters of someone's 
thesis. (Work one might usually expect to be paid for, and like Albert's 
and Charles's friends I've a fair amount of carpentry to get through.) 
Jeff's reluctance to supply details, I can now see, isn't merely 
evasiveness and a whole thesis, as he said, doesn't lend itself 
to "sound-bites". It looks, from the summary, as though Chap. 4 might 
be the place where some of the answers to the questions about UK 
poetry asked here could be found, but as yet that's not on offer. Apart 
from various critics, the Movement and Group, and - for Jeff - the 
weirdly omnipresent Hobsbaum, I can only see Hughes representing the 
UK (Heaney's "passport's green"). Though often descriptive, in ways 
that to me at least look untiringly inventive, I can't think of a 
less "empiricist" poet than Hughes, and hardly "parochial" in any bad 
sense - alongside other foreign poets who have been of importance to 
him are Vasko Popa, Janos Pilinszky and Yehuda Amichai. (Among the 
Romantics I would have thought Coleridge, far more than Wordsworth, 
held sway over his imagination.) Jeff, in this chapter do you consider 
any other poets than these as evidence of Wordworth's "supreme" 
influence? 
>   Mark, thanks for those references. I know some of Spicer's poetry, 
but not Blazer. Apart from Eliot's engagement with Baudelaire and 
Laforgue, Hart Crane's with Rimbaud and others, I can't really see that 
much of French Symbolism's impact on the US  poetry I've read. 
Appearances and references maybe but that doesn't look much different 
from the UK. Much later, for instance, Randall Jarrell may translate 
Corbiere's haunting 'Rondels pour apres' - but an influence?
>Best wishes
>Jamie
>  Jeff,
>
>
>  you can't dismiss Deleuze's thinking about empiricism as "just an 
opinion," or else anything anybody says or writes can be dismissed 
as "just an opinion" & then we're up shitcreek without a paddle. 
>
>
>  I have skimmed through this whole discussion with mounting 
irritation as "just opinion" seems to have been the core mode of 
proposal & response. As someone who's been active (well more 
voyeuristically these last few years) on a range of e-fora since their 
inception, I can say from experience that serious, detailed discussions 
& exchanges are rather rare (I remember some excellent ones on the 
buffalo poetics list in its early years). I wonder if combining discussions 
on the list with more detailed statements (such as those chapters you 
proposed we read) on parallel blogs, would be a better way in that it 
would lessen the risk of just instant irritated comeback snapping? 
>
>
>  Pierre
>
>
>


Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

JiscMail Tools


RSS Feeds and Sharing


Advanced Options


Archives

April 2024
March 2024
February 2024
January 2024
December 2023
November 2023
October 2023
September 2023
August 2023
July 2023
June 2023
May 2023
April 2023
March 2023
February 2023
January 2023
December 2022
November 2022
October 2022
September 2022
August 2022
July 2022
June 2022
May 2022
April 2022
March 2022
February 2022
January 2022
December 2021
November 2021
October 2021
September 2021
August 2021
July 2021
June 2021
May 2021
April 2021
March 2021
February 2021
January 2021
December 2020
November 2020
October 2020
September 2020
August 2020
July 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
2006
2005
2004
2003
2002
2001
2000
1999
1998
1997


JiscMail is a Jisc service.

View our service policies at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ and Jisc's privacy policy at https://www.jisc.ac.uk/website/privacy-notice

For help and support help@jisc.ac.uk

Secured by F-Secure Anti-Virus CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager