"So I have to say I find Jeffrey's focus in itself parochial. Poetry in
England had its time of greatness, and a considerable length of time at
that, but the focus of these things moves. I'd hazard that if there is to
be really 'significant' poetry in this century it won't be in a European
language at all."
David, I'm not talking about poetry or poets, as I have said repeatedly,
but about a US/French influence that became international in the early
C20.
On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 15:36:24 +0100, David Bircumshaw
<[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>A point further, if I had to say who I thought the most 'significant'
>European language poets of the last century I'd unhesitatingly name
Celan
>and Vallejo, both at their best go far beyond English language
modernists in
>expression and connotation. It seemed so to me thirty years ago and
still
>does now. So I have to say I find Jeffrey's focus in itself parochial.
>Poetry in England had its time of greatness, and a considerable length
of
>time at that, but the focus of these things moves. I'd hazard that if
there
>is to be really 'significant' poetry in this century it won't be in a
>European language at all.
>
>2009/8/30 David Bircumshaw <[log in to unmask]>
>
>> I wouldn't disagree that Paris was the artistic focal point. Quite a
few of
>> those Russians and Hispanics were there too.
>>
>>
>> 2009/8/30 Tim Allen <[log in to unmask]>
>>
>>> I won't push it David, it's not that important, but Paris was the
focal
>>> point, I don't see how anyone can argue with that really, or even
why they
>>> would want to. Spain, Russia, wherever, their eyes were on Paris.
It was not
>>> a French thing, it was an international thing, yes, but it sat in the
middle
>>> of old empires, except ours.
>>> Tim A.
>>>
>>> On 30 Aug 2009, at 14:54, David Bircumshaw wrote:
>>>
>>> It's odd, you know, but I was raised in the understanding that the
most
>>> important or 'significant' poetry in European languages in the first
half of
>>> the twentieth century was in Spanish (American and Iberian) and
Russian (all
>>> sorts of nationalities). With the Poles and the Greeks next in line.
People
>>> like Bowra and J.M.Cohen and Seymour-Smith taught me that in
their writings,
>>> and that English language modernist poetry (British or US or
whatever) was a
>>> somewhat lesser matter.
>>>
>>> 2009/8/30 Tim Allen <[log in to unmask]>
>>>
>>>> Well, ummm, it depends on what you mean by accident, and
what you mean by
>>>> nationality.
>>>> There are some well documented reasons why France became
such an early
>>>> modernist hothouse, and it is not too difficult to understand why
the US, a
>>>> young country that embraced the new, followed on tentatively
until after WW1
>>>> when it took over. The US was this strange creature where the
backward and
>>>> the forward existed side by side - still is I suppose.
>>>>
>>>> Tim A.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 30 Aug 2009, at 12:36, Jeffrey Side wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I agree. I don’t think nationality, per se, has anything to do with
it.
>>>>> It
>>>>> is just an accident of history that modernism developed from
the French
>>>>> and US poets.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> David Bircumshaw
>>> "A window./Big enough to hold screams/
>>> You say are poems" - DMeltzer
>>> Website and A Chide's Alphabet
>>> http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk
>>> The Animal Subsides
http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
>>> Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk
>>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/david.bircumshaw
>>>
>>>
>>> =
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> David Bircumshaw
>> "A window./Big enough to hold screams/
>> You say are poems" - DMeltzer
>> Website and A Chide's Alphabet
>> http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk
>> The Animal Subsides
http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
>> Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk
>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/david.bircumshaw
>>
>
>
>
>--
>David Bircumshaw
>"A window./Big enough to hold screams/
>You say are poems" - DMeltzer
>Website and A Chide's Alphabet
>http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk
>The Animal Subsides
http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
>Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk
>Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/david.bircumshaw
>
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