when I wrote the post Max I was thinking that there are no tomes that could
be pointed to: it's more a matter of essays here and there, books edited,
actgs of alignment and colaboration, all those things he did with Octavio
Paz, for instance, and the poetry itself being that of a poet-critic in its
stance.
2009/7/15 Max Richards <[log in to unmask]>
> What crit did Tomlinson write apart from a good chapter in the Pelican
> Guide to
> englit?
>
> The current tls online reruns an old T poem - never collected because
> 'satirical'? - and foreshadows a forthcoming CP.
>
> Max
>
> Quoting David Bircumshaw <[log in to unmask]>:
>
> > I ought to add that I think Davie's poems after Mickiewicz and Pasternak
> are
> > rather attractive. But his contemporary as a poet-critic Charles
> Tomlinson
> > I've alwayd thought far more interesting.
> >
> > 2009/7/15 David Bircumshaw <[log in to unmask]>
> >
> > > As a critic/teacher Davie hada very interesting career: from being a
> > > supporter of Larkin he became a mentor of Tom Raworth, if I remember
> > > correctly. He did write a short poem in his The Shires sequence which
> > > mentions the Leicester Poetry Society at mention ing which people's
> > interest
> > > will perk, unfortunately I have to wince inwardly when mentioning it to
> > > advertise the group as the poem's also little more than doggerel.
> > >
> > > The problem with 20th century evaluations of Milton and Shelley in
> > > particular is disentangling critiques of elements of their diction with
> the
> > > fact that both were political poets and of their time precursors of the
> > > modern left while their arch-detractors like Pound and Eliot
> (explicitly)
> > > and Leavis (implicitly) were very much of the right wing. I'd hasten to
> add
> > > that I don't know what Leavis's actual political affiliations were, but
> his
> > > nostalgic harking back to the organic village is as conservative
> as,say,the
> > > avowedly anti-democrat Catholic Tolkein.
> > >
> > > 2009/7/14 Max Richards <[log in to unmask]>
> > >
> > > I think Davie was hard at work in academic English widening the canon
> that
> > >> had
> > >> been narrowed by Leavis's Revaluation (1936), which was so hard on
> Shelley
> > >> and
> > >> Milton and ...
> > >>
> > >> Whatever Davie's achievement as poet, his criticism wherever I have
> > >> sampled it
> > >> has an energy and often relish about it that engages me ...
> > >>
> > >> Max
> > >>
> > >> Quoting David Bircumshaw <[log in to unmask]>:
> > >>
> > >> > I never did read it when young and it has been a pleasure to do so
> now,
> > >> I've
> > >> > also looked back at a lot of Shelley that I did find exciting when
> 14
> > >> and am
> > >> > rather thrilled that I can still feel those pinions beating in, say,
> the
> > >> > Hymn to Intellectual Beauty. It's as valid of its age as Beethoven
> > >> sonatas
> > >> > or the slightly later Chopin. I can almost feel wooden ships at
> anchor,
> > >> hear
> > >> > their timbers creaking.
> > >> >
> > >> > Yes, Julian and Maddalo does have a calmer voice in the narrator,
> its
> > >> rather
> > >> > like a foretaste of Clough there, with the more Gothic and wilder
> > >> Shelley in
> > >> > the voice of the madman. it's very kind of as puny a poet as Donald
> > >> Davie to
> > >> > condescend to pat him on the head.
> > >> >
> > >> > 2009/7/9 Max Richards <[log in to unmask]>
> > >> >
> > >> > > Thanks for both, Robin.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > My wife is rapt; she has printed out the whole poem, and says it
> > >> speaks to
> > >> > > her
> > >> > > even more than her favourite Wordsworth passages.
> > >> > > She says she twisted her ankle part way through the Romantic poets
> > >> course
> > >> > > twenty
> > >> > > years ago, and missed Shelley altogether!
> > >> > > I recall Donald Davie long ago ('Purity of Diction...') made a
> case
> > >> for a
> > >> > > levelheaded rather than rhapsodic Shelley on the strength of
> 'Julian
> > >> and
> > >> > > Maddalo'. But I guess it remains on the unread or under-read side
> of
> > >> > > Shelley.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Max
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Quoting Robin Hamilton <[log in to unmask]>:
> > >> > >
> > >> > > > Specifically:
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > Most wretched men
> > >> > > > Are cradled into poetry by wrong:
> > >> > > > They learn in suffering what they teach in song.
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > Shelley, "Julian and Maddalo", Line 544.
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > Robin
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > > "... in the preface to the collection [Elizabeth Barrett
> > >> (Browning)]
> > >> > > > > insisted on the sorrow and suffering necessary to the poet,
> and
> > >> she
> > >> > > quoted
> > >> > > > > from Shelley's 'Julian and Maddalo' to clinch her argument
> that
> > >> 'we
> > >> > > learn
> > >> > > > > in suffering what we teach in song.' ... "
> > >> > > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> > > This email was sent from Netspace Webmail:
> http://www.netspace.net.au
> > >> > >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > --
> > >> > David Bircumshaw
> > >> > "A window./Big enough to hold screams/
> > >> > You say are poems" - DMeltzer
> > >> > Website and A Chide's Alphabet
> > >> > http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk
> > >> > The Animal Subsides
> http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
> > >> > Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> This email was sent from Netspace Webmail: http://www.netspace.net.au
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > David Bircumshaw
> > > "A window./Big enough to hold screams/
> > > You say are poems" - DMeltzer
> > > Website and A Chide's Alphabet
> > > http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk
> > > The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
> > > Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > David Bircumshaw
> > "A window./Big enough to hold screams/
> > You say are poems" - DMeltzer
> > Website and A Chide's Alphabet
> > http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk
> > The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
> > Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> This email was sent from Netspace Webmail: http://www.netspace.net.au
>
--
David Bircumshaw
"A window./Big enough to hold screams/
You say are poems" - DMeltzer
Website and A Chide's Alphabet
http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk
The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk
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