i always love your comments, jude.
i'll publish my book soon, and send it to you via net.
do you like jeanette winterson?
i think she is also too self-centred, not very brilliant and
i myself try hard not to follow the same path.
do you, jude, live in london?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Judy Prince" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 11:44 AM
Subject: Re: Last Post Laureate
> You've put your finger on something, David: "It's social realism without
> real anger."
> Phony is what it is. It's not just C Duff, and it's not just poetry.
> Since
> I rarely read novels, don't watch tv, and seldom see non-historical
> films/DVDs, I can't judge those genres, but I do note that plays and
> poetry
> puff up sales when they 'feel like' political anger or class/age/gender
> angst. I think it's worse than pornography which at least honestly rips
> us
> off. Modern poetry and play "topic-porno" tweaks predictably and quickly,
> but not surprisingly lacks creative depth.
>
> Of course, most poets' and playwrights' works [mine included] are quite
> forgettable, lacking the singularity and creative depth of Excellence.
> But
> I want now to draw attention to a distinction between contemporary
> socio-political realism in poetry and plays and some of the Excellent
> social/political realism in poetry and plays of decades and centuries
> past.
>
> I believe that the disguisery necessary [for the continued life of the
> poet/playwright] to poems and plays that criticised their days' political
> realities often *forced out artistic brilliances* with analogies,
> subtleties, plot, motive and character hidings within fables, legends,
> myths, previous dynastic figures, animals as people, satire, SF,
> dystopias,
> even ekphrastics].
>
> These techniques are unnecessary in now relatively-freer-from-persecution
> sociopolitical climates [in the west]. Hence, we're left with reportage
> presented as poetry and plays. Poets and playwrights can and do
> consciously
> and unconsciously "porno-pimp" the issues of our day. If the works are
> veneerly good [ie, hack], they'll get brief rewards in sales and
> ticket-purchasings. Even the most sincere, moved, angered, angsted poets
> and playwrights need use little masquerade-depth techniques because they
> not
> only do not need disguises, but they understandably want "in your face"
> factual realism---so they don't explore and exploit classic techniques.
>
> Finally, then, we have Carol Duffy and Ruth Padel----the unfortunates who
> desperately wanted anointing as artistic 'realists' and who actively
> leveraged their gender [victim] status in order to achieve the highest
> poetic academic posts in the UK.
>
> "Professional" feminists; idolising young fans; tired and frustrated
> teachers/admins; and PC-conforming academics have given us our Empresses'
> New Clothes......wedged and skewered now into all our poem archives.
>
> I hope several folk will write articles and books on this topic.
>
> Best,
>
> Judy
>
> 2009/7/31 David Bircumshaw <[log in to unmask]>
>
>> With CAD, I've never really taken all that much to her stuff, the same
>> goes
>> for a number of poets who emerged during the eighties/ early nineties.
>> Because it keeps getting pushed, and because people are so bowed by
>> celebrity nowadays, it begins to feel like a sin to not admire, but ...
>> It reminds me of much British cinema, alright as far as it goes, but
>> pre-packaged. It's social realism without real anger.
>>
>> 2009/7/31 Judy Prince <[log in to unmask]>
>>
>> > Hey, how come I didn't know you read at L'Bro U! We'd've been there!
>> Why
>> > was it strange?
>> > I keep wishing I'd glow with delight at C Duff's poems, but it don't
>> > happen.
>> >
>> > Her serious mission seems off, somehow. I know folks who cave to her
>> > almost
>> > religious sincerity regarding poetry-making. Separate that from her
>> actual
>> > poems and you have . . . a religiously serious-sounding poet whose
>> > poetry
>> > isn't all that good.
>> >
>> > How did this happen, David? And the Padel thing, too. I'll be voting
>> for
>> > Stephen Moss for P o P of OU.
>> >
>> > Egad, let's find you a room at the Curve! Or in the parsonage across
>> > the
>> > road.
>> >
>> > Best,
>> >
>> > Judy
>> >
>> > 2009/7/30 David Bircumshaw <[log in to unmask]>
>> >
>> > > It read rather like the commissioned poem it is, and as if something
>> > > readymade for the school syllabus. I dunno: it seemed made out of
>> things
>> > > she'd read, but she's the same age as me and would have grown up in a
>> > > childhood where there were lots of people around who fought in the
>> > trenches
>> > > and would have a relationship with that, well I do anyhow. The
>> > > memories
>> > of
>> > > both wars were all about me, walking. Some of them were my
>> > > grandfathers
>> > > even.
>> > >
>> > > (It seemed curiously unreal as just after I wrote the police called
>> > asking
>> > > if I'd heard anything overnight: a guy on the floor above had been
>> found
>> > > hanged out of his window)
>> > >
>> > > (ps I read at Loughborough University on Sunday; that was strange
>> > > too!)
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > 2009/7/30 Judy Prince <[log in to unmask]>
>> > >
>> > > > Haven't checked these out yet, but wanna know your take on it,
>> > > > Dave.
>> > > > Best,
>> > > >
>> > > > Judy
>> > > >
>> > > > 2009/7/30 David Bircumshaw <[log in to unmask]>
>> > > >
>> > > > > Carol Ann Duffy is certainly being very visible, audible:
>> > > > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_8175000/8175790.stm
>> > > > >
>> > > > > <http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_8175000/8175790.stm
>> > > > > >commissioned
>> > > > > by BBC Radio 4 to commemorate the deaths of the last British
>> > survivors
>> > > of
>> > > > > the battles of WWI.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > --
>> > > > > David Bircumshaw
>> > > > > "A window./Big enough to hold screams/
>> > > > > You say are poems" - DMeltzer
>> > > > > Website and A Chide's Alphabet
>> > > > > http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk
>> > > > > The Animal Subsides
>> > http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
>> > > > > Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > David Bircumshaw
>> > > "A window./Big enough to hold screams/
>> > > You say are poems" - DMeltzer
>> > > Website and A Chide's Alphabet
>> > > http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk
>> > > The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
>> > > Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk
>> > >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> David Bircumshaw
>> "A window./Big enough to hold screams/
>> You say are poems" - DMeltzer
>> Website and A Chide's Alphabet
>> http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk
>> The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
>> Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk
>>
>
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