It is clear to me that the general drift of comments in this thread display
an absence of a defined theory of the nature of theory, without which
theory, theory theoretically cannot theorised or theoretically be, in theory
or not.
In A Midsummer Night's Theme we see what can happen if you cavort with the
theories.
2009/5/13 Judy Prince <[log in to unmask]>
> And then there's The Best, Art Tatum:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYcZGPLAnHA&feature=related
> Judy
>
> 2009/5/13 Douglas Barbour <[log in to unmask]>
>
> > I admit that I may be wrong in thinking that music theory & poetic theory
> > arent quite the same thing. I'd respond to this John, by saying that a
> lot
> > of the 'theory' can only be learned by reding the poems, & then trying to
> > write the way that excites you most, not copying others' poem exactly so
> > much as seeing how those poems do what they do. And to see that, one must
> > read poems, a lot of them.
> >
> > Which is a bit like paying a lot, while also asking questions, like that
> > one Miles asked Dizzy.
> >
> > Doug
> > On 13-May-09, at 9:43 AM, John Herbert Cunningham wrote:
> >
> > Until recently, Dominic, all the great composers were known as great
> >> improvisers - Bach Beethoven, Mozart, etc. This meant that they were
> able
> >> to
> >> play by ear and, in fact, because of this skill, they were able to
> notate
> >> what they heard in their heads. Many composers these days compose via
> >> mathematical algorithms so I cannot say anything about their ability to
> >> hear
> >> music. As to Jazz, Andrew, it used to be the case that there was a
> certain
> >> amount of pride in jazz musicians saying that they were untutored.
> Recent
> >> investigations and writing on the early and later jazz giants indicating
> >> that most of them were schooled in theory. Dizzy Gillespie and Charlie
> >> Parker would talk for hours about chords and structure. The legendary
> >> cutting sessions in Kansas City and the same type of sessions in New
> York
> >> required musicians to be able to modulate their way through complex
> >> chordal
> >> patterns. Legend has it that Ornette Coleman taught himself theory while
> >> operating an elevator in L.A. The joke that others were to tell is that
> he
> >> got it wrong. This doesn't really matter much as he went on to create
> his
> >> own harmelodic theory. So whether classical or jazz, if you want to
> >> compose
> >> then you'd better have your chops down. I think the same works for
> >> poetry.
> >> The better a poet you become, the more you've paid attention to literary
> >> theory and the more poetry reflecting this theory you've read never mind
> >> the
> >> time spent trying to figure out what another poet is saying and what
> the
> >> thing is in the way that say it that makes that poem and poet effective.
> >>
> >
> > Douglas Barbour
> > [log in to unmask]
> >
> > http://www.ualberta.ca/~dbarbour/
> >
> > Latest books:
> > Continuations (with Sheila E Murphy)
> > http://www.uap.ualberta.ca/UAP.asp?LID=41&bookID=664
> > Wednesdays'
> >
> >
> http://abovegroundpress.blogspot.com/2008/03/new-from-aboveground-press_10.html
> >
> > and this is 'life' and we owe at least this much
> > contemplation to our western fact: to Rise,
> > Decline, Fall, to futility and larks,
> > to the bright crustaceans of the oversky.
> >
> > Phyllis Webb
> >
>
--
David Bircumshaw
"Nothing can be done in the face
of ordinary unhappiness" - PP
Website and A Chide's Alphabet
http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk
The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk
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