It isn't just students who say "forMANT". No less than Ken Stevens pronounces
the word this way. Actually, Ken doesn't pronounce the second syllable with
primary stress but with a full vowel [ae] and secondary stress.
Best,
John Kingston
Quoting PHONET automatic digest system <[log in to unmask]>:
> There are 5 messages totalling 360 lines in this issue.
>
> Topics of the day:
>
> 1. Rhinoglottophiliacs - the results
> 2. Obstruent - summary
> 3. Obstruent - summary: reprise (2)
> 4. obstruent - 2nd reprise
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 08:48:55 +0000
> From: Mark Jones <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Rhinoglottophiliacs - the results
>
> --_96ccdfce-75f4-4959-8fd7-e4efc10f8b5e_
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
>
> Dear all=2C
>
> many thanks to the handful of usual suspects who emailed me or otherwise go=
> t in touch about simultaneous glottal activity and nostril flaring. It look=
> s like a more or less 50/50 split (albeit with a sample <10)=2C so maybe th=
> is is one of those tongue curling things that some can and some can't do.
>
> On a serious note=2C sphinctering of the nostrils (if this is what this is)=
> is an aquatic adaptation=2C so an ability to close glottis and nostrils si=
> multaneously could be seen as a further piece of evidence in favour of the =
> somewhat controversial Aquatic Ape Hypothesis=2C i.e. that humans have an a=
> quatic stage in their evolutionary history. I don't know whether seals and =
> polar bears close the glottis too when they close their nostrils=2C and cam=
> els can close the nostrils and they live in the desert=2C so proof it isn't=
> =2C but intriguing nevertheless.
>
> Anyone who has any ideas about an (ethical!) experimental methodology for i=
> nducing nareal sphinctering in a naive subject=2C please get in touch.
>
> Mark
>
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>
>
> Dr Mark J. Jones
>
> Temporary Lecturer in Phonetics
> Department of Language & Communication Science
> City University=2C London
>
> [log in to unmask]
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Share your photos with Windows Live Photos =96 Free.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/134665338/direct/01/=
>
> --_96ccdfce-75f4-4959-8fd7-e4efc10f8b5e_
> Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> <html>
> <head>
> <style>
> .hmmessage P
> {
> margin:0px=3B
> padding:0px
> }
> body.hmmessage
> {
> font-size: 10pt=3B
> font-family:Verdana
> }
> </style>
> </head>
> <body class=3D'hmmessage'>
> Dear all=2C<br><br>many thanks to the handful of usual suspects who emailed=
> me or otherwise got in touch about simultaneous glottal activity and nostr=
> il flaring. It looks like a more or less 50/50 split (albeit with a sample =
> <=3B10)=2C so maybe this is one of those tongue curling things that some =
> can and some can't do.<br><br>On a serious note=2C sphinctering of the nost=
> rils (if this is what this is) is an aquatic adaptation=2C so an ability to=
> close glottis and nostrils simultaneously could be seen as a further piece=
> of evidence in favour of the somewhat controversial Aquatic Ape Hypothesis=
> =2C i.e. that humans have an aquatic stage in their evolutionary history. I=
> don't know whether seals and polar bears close the glottis too when they c=
> lose their nostrils=2C and camels can close the nostrils and they live in t=
> he desert=2C so proof it isn't=2C but intriguing nevertheless.<br><br>Anyon=
> e who has any ideas about an (ethical!) experimental methodology for induci=
> ng nareal sphinctering in a naive subject=2C please get in touch.<br><br>Ma=
> rk<br><br>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> <br>
> <br>Dr Mark J. Jones
> <br>Temporary Lecturer in Phonetics<br>Department of Language &=3B Commu=
> nication Science<br>City University=2C London<br><br>[log in to unmask]<=
> br><br><br><br /><hr />Share your photos with Windows Live Photos =96 Free.=
> <a href=3D'http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/134665338/direct/01/' target=3D'_ne=
> w'>Try it Now!</a></body>
> </html>=
>
> --_96ccdfce-75f4-4959-8fd7-e4efc10f8b5e_--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 15:17:09 +0100
> From: Martin J Ball <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Obstruent - summary
>
> Obstruents
>
> Many thanks to all those who responded (listed below).=20
>
> The main reason put forward for a possible explanation of this stress pat=
> tern=20
> was analogy with other =93ob-=93 words such as obstruct, obtain, observe,=
> etc, all=20
> of which have second syllable stress.
>
> John Wells, however, pointed to another pattern which one would suppose=20=
>
> might have blocked the one just referred to; that is, the influence of ot=
> her =93-
> uent=94 words, such as affluent, congruent, constituent (and similar such=
> as=20
> radiant, variant, etc). (By the way, thanks to John for putting this on =
> his=20
> blog.)
>
> My main reason for wondering whether I=92d missed a US pronunciation,=20
> however, is the fact that the speaker is a speech pathologist of over 20 =
> years=20
> experience (and thus trained, we=92d hope, to listen really carefully to =
> speech)=20
> and a current doctoral student (thus, we=92d hope, having encountered the=
> =20
> word in question reasonably often), coupled with the fact that I=92d been=
> using=20
> the word in doctoral seminars over several weeks....
>
> Maybe this realization was influenced by the stress pattern in 'disfluent=
> '?
>
> A couple of other points: thanks to Bob Ladd for reminding me that, of co=
> urse,=20
> DEbris (as opposed to d@BRIS) is actually a British English stress shift =
> back=20
> from the French original.
>
> And thanks to Natasha Warner for allowing me to share some annoying=20
> student pronunciations/versions of phonetic terms. These include forMANT,=
> =20
> FORmat (both for FORm@nt), constonant, approximates, and dipp-thongs.....=
> .
>
> Thanks go to:
> John Wells, John Maidment, Natasha Warner, Bob Ladd, Mark Tatham, David=20=
>
> Ward, Mark Jones, Ian Crookston, and Allard Jongman.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 09:33:47 -0500
> From: Dr Martin Ball <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Obstruent - summary: reprise
>
> Hi again -
> I forgot a real doozy form a recent sociolinguistics class (doc students
> again):
> Tamil pronounced as t@MEEL
>
> Martin J. Ball, Ph.D., FRCSLT
> Doris B. Hawthorne-BORSF Endowed Professor II
> Director, Doris B. Hawthorne Center for Special Education & Communicative
> Disorders,
> Honorary Professor, University of Wales Institute Cardiff
> Co-Editor 'Clinical Linguistics and Phonetics'
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Martin J Ball [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 9:17 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Cc: Martin J Ball
> Subject: Obstruent - summary
>
> Obstruents
>
> Many thanks to all those who responded (listed below).
>
> The main reason put forward for a possible explanation of this stress
> pattern
> was analogy with other "ob-" words such as obstruct, obtain, observe, etc,
> all
> of which have second syllable stress.
>
> John Wells, however, pointed to another pattern which one would suppose
> might have blocked the one just referred to; that is, the influence of other
> "-
> uent" words, such as affluent, congruent, constituent (and similar such as
> radiant, variant, etc). (By the way, thanks to John for putting this on his
>
> blog.)
>
> My main reason for wondering whether I'd missed a US pronunciation,
> however, is the fact that the speaker is a speech pathologist of over 20
> years
> experience (and thus trained, we'd hope, to listen really carefully to
> speech)
> and a current doctoral student (thus, we'd hope, having encountered the
> word in question reasonably often), coupled with the fact that I'd been
> using
> the word in doctoral seminars over several weeks....
>
> Maybe this realization was influenced by the stress pattern in 'disfluent'?
>
> A couple of other points: thanks to Bob Ladd for reminding me that, of
> course,
> DEbris (as opposed to d@BRIS) is actually a British English stress shift
> back
> from the French original.
>
> And thanks to Natasha Warner for allowing me to share some annoying
> student pronunciations/versions of phonetic terms. These include forMANT,
> FORmat (both for FORm@nt), constonant, approximates, and dipp-thongs......
>
> Thanks go to:
> John Wells, John Maidment, Natasha Warner, Bob Ladd, Mark Tatham, David
> Ward, Mark Jones, Ian Crookston, and Allard Jongman.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 15:52:32 +0100
> From: Martin J Ball <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: obstruent - 2nd reprise
>
> Apologies to Richard Ogden for leaving him of my list of responders.
>
> And another great pronunciation from my doctoral sociolinguistics group: =
> Tamil=20
> pronounced as t@MEEL .....
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 10:56:47 -0400
> From: "Hicks, Catherine" <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Obstruent - summary: reprise
>
> Hi,
>
> I'd like to contribute the two following pronunciations that I find =
> surprising (and often):
>
> constants for "consonants" (both in speech and in writing)
> morphine for "morpheme" (though this one doesn't really surprise me)
>
> And finally, my first name, Catherine, gets pronounced more frequently =
> than not as "CathRINE" with final stress. This is how I know when a =
> telemarketer is calling.
>
> Cathy
> (N. Warner's former student)
> =20
>
> Cathy Hicks Kennard, Ph.D.
> Asst. Professor of English
> Central Michigan University
> Anspach 206
> Mount Pleasant, MI 48858
> 989.774.3371
> [log in to unmask]
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Teaching of phonetics mailing list on behalf of Dr Martin Ball
> Sent: Thu 4/9/2009 10:33 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Obstruent - summary: reprise
> =20
> Hi again -
> I forgot a real doozy form a recent sociolinguistics class (doc students
> again):
> Tamil pronounced as t@MEEL
>
> Martin J. Ball, Ph.D., FRCSLT
> Doris B. Hawthorne-BORSF Endowed Professor II
> Director, Doris B. Hawthorne Center for Special Education & =
> Communicative
> Disorders,
> Honorary Professor, University of Wales Institute Cardiff
> Co-Editor 'Clinical Linguistics and Phonetics'
> =20
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Martin J Ball [mailto:[log in to unmask]]=20
> Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 9:17 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Cc: Martin J Ball
> Subject: Obstruent - summary
>
> Obstruents
>
> Many thanks to all those who responded (listed below).=20
>
> The main reason put forward for a possible explanation of this stress
> pattern=20
> was analogy with other "ob-" words such as obstruct, obtain, observe, =
> etc,
> all=20
> of which have second syllable stress.
>
> John Wells, however, pointed to another pattern which one would suppose=20
> might have blocked the one just referred to; that is, the influence of =
> other
> "-
> uent" words, such as affluent, congruent, constituent (and similar such =
> as=20
> radiant, variant, etc). (By the way, thanks to John for putting this on =
> his
>
> blog.)
>
> My main reason for wondering whether I'd missed a US pronunciation,=20
> however, is the fact that the speaker is a speech pathologist of over 20
> years=20
> experience (and thus trained, we'd hope, to listen really carefully to
> speech)=20
> and a current doctoral student (thus, we'd hope, having encountered the=20
> word in question reasonably often), coupled with the fact that I'd been
> using=20
> the word in doctoral seminars over several weeks....
>
> Maybe this realization was influenced by the stress pattern in =
> 'disfluent'?
>
> A couple of other points: thanks to Bob Ladd for reminding me that, of
> course,=20
> DEbris (as opposed to d@BRIS) is actually a British English stress shift
> back=20
> from the French original.
>
> And thanks to Natasha Warner for allowing me to share some annoying=20
> student pronunciations/versions of phonetic terms. These include =
> forMANT,=20
> FORmat (both for FORm@nt), constonant, approximates, and =
> dipp-thongs......
>
> Thanks go to:
> John Wells, John Maidment, Natasha Warner, Bob Ladd, Mark Tatham, David=20
> Ward, Mark Jones, Ian Crookston, and Allard Jongman.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of PHONET Digest - 8 Apr 2009 to 9 Apr 2009 (#2009-14)
> **********************************************************
>
--
John Kingston
Linguistics Department
University of Massachusetts
226 South College, 150 Hicks Way
Amherst, MA 01003-9274
[log in to unmask]
1-413-545-6833, fax -2792
www.people.umass.edu/jkingstn
|
