Perhaps the low pay of science communicators demonstrates that to some extent science has become the new religion. The young curates (sorry interns) are poorly paid but believe their job to be its own reward.
Trying to influencing people to think in new ways that will benefit themselves and their community is an important job and it is rewarding for those who truly belief it is important. If the pay was better, the wrong kind of people may be attracted to the work. I wonder if the character and dedication of doctors changed when their pay improved.
Lesley
________________________________________
From: psci-com: on public engagement with science [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of dianne stilwell [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 12 March 2009 14:37
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] Post available at Centre for Life (Please excuse the cross-posting)
It's ironic that we're having this debate in National Science Week - the time when, with government backing, science communicators of all types are supposed to be doing their utmost to get children interested in science and scientific careers. Although there's a long way to go, the pay for scientific research careers has improved - in part due to the lobbying, campaigning and publicity put in by - yep, science communicators again.
Seems we're good at getting benefits for others but not ourselves. Physician, (now there's a group who've got the salary thing sewn up) heal thyself.
Dianne
Dianne Stilwell
Communications Consultant
88 Munster Road
Teddington
Middx TW11 9LW
+44 (0)20 8977 6520
+44 (0)7957 200214
[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
On 12 Mar 2009, at 14:18, Jones, HM wrote:
Also, this notion of an either/or situation where it's only possible to have a fulfilling job if the pay is pitiful, is frankly, ridiculous.
One of the significant developments in the higher education sector recently has been the realisation that if we want to retain our talented scientists, we need to pay them a comparable salary to those offered in competitor career paths. And this has been done.
Those of us who accept rubbish salaries and say it's ok because we love our work aren't doing anyone any favours.
Dr Hilary M Jones
Skills Development Co-ordinator/Teaching Fellow
Department of Biology
Area 6
PO Box 373
York YO10 5YW
tel: 01904 328 740
fax: 01904 328 510
email: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Contract researchers' careers website:
http://www.york.ac.uk/depts/biol/skillsdev/
Careers wiki:
http://www.careerswithscience.org
Laura Crossley wrote:
Yes, it's on GEM all the time. I recall a time when an Archivist job in London was being offered at just under £13,000 per annum. My friends and I wondered if they'd let us sleep in the office; we weren't going to be able to rent a room anywhere near the workplace, particularly if we decided to eat as well.
All my experience so far tells me that people with rich parents can afford to volunteer, intern and/or take ridiculously low wages to break into/remain in a sector that they're passionate about, whilst others have to do whatever they can (including leaving sectors) to pay the bills. It's something that needs to be tackled quickly. Widening participation should not just be tackled via research reports and strategy meetings, but in practice.
We also need to question the idea that some of us should do jobs "for the love of it" whilst others can do jobs "for the love of it" AND because they'll get a decent wage. It's not about avarice, it's about being fair.
Laura Crossley
________________________________
From: psci-com: on public engagement with science [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Laura H. Drane
Sent: 12 March 2009 12:38
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] Post available at Centre for Life (Please excuse the cross-posting)
I thought that this was mainly a media industry epidemic, so I'm interested to hear that it's so widespread!
This exact discussion happens month in/ month out on the GEM list too - for galleries and museums education people/ organisations. And is very prevalent in other areas of the arts/ culture too.
Laura
Laura Drane FRSA
Laura H. Drane Associates
1st Floor
120 Grosvenor St
Manchester M1 7HL
t: 0161 273 1171
m: 07957 622 623
f: 0870 7623 802
e: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> <mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]>
w: www.lauraHdrane.com<http://www.lauraHdrane.com>
w: www.artsednews.com<http://www.artsednews.com>
________________________________
From: psci-com: on public engagement with science [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Liz Newton
Sent: 12 March 2009 12:17
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] Post available at Centre for Life (Please excuse the cross-posting)
I have been following this thread with interest, as working in television production this is standard practice - starting off on a very low wage and often working for free to get experience.
I have a BSc and an MSc, and although this has undoubtedly helped me get a foot in the door, my wage certainly doesn't reflect my experience. But as someone else has said, I get tremendous satisfaction out of my job, and I wouldn't quit it in favour of a better-paid job. The way I see it, it's an incredibly competitive industry, and if I was that worried about earning a pittance I'd switch careers. The fact that I am still here and still love my job speaks volumes.
I thought that this was mainly a media industry epidemic, so I'm interested to hear that it's so widespread!
Liz Newton BSc (Hons) MSc
Freelance Science Writer / Film-maker
[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> <mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]> ¦ 07796 033 490
liznewtonmedia.googlepages.com <http://liznewtonmedia.googlepages.com/><http://liznewtonmedia.googlepages.com/>
www.molehillmedia.co.uk<http://www.molehillmedia.co.uk> <http://www.molehillmedia.co.uk/><http://www.molehillmedia.co.uk/>
________________________________
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 04:10:11 -0700
From: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] Post available at Centre for Life (Please excuse the cross-posting)
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
I hate to cast a gloomy view on things but I think there will be a queue for this job.
If I lived in Newcastle, I would apply. Since graduating from my masters I have worked for free (yes, I know it's illegal but it's the only way to get relevant experience) for various companies in the hope of getting a paid job at the end. Even living in London, a salary of £15,350 would be wonderful at the moment - it's better than the money I live on from my part time job as a Theatre steward.
You may say that it is my fault for accepting to work for free, which is true, but it's unfair to expect the people at the bottom of the career ladder to push for salary change: £15,350 working in a field I want to get experience in is much better than temping in an area I have no interest in or sitting at home job hunting and earning nothing.
Apologies for the bleak view - I'm not fishing for pity! - but things are quite bad at the moment for us graduates.
I do, however, realise this salary reflects an entry level job, which 'lab manager' is not.
________________________________
From: Mary <[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, 11 March, 2009 21:46:09
Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] Post available at Centre for Life (Please excuse the cross-posting)
The pay is lousy per se, but the post-holder has also to be available to work weekends and evenings, which makes it even worse. I know there's a recession, but this is really exploiting people, isn't it? Even in France , where I live, and where salaries are a lot lower than in the UK and unemployment a lot higher, I can't imagine that there would be a queue for the job at this salary.
Mary
Mary Rice
________________________________
From: psci-com: on public engagement with science [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Nan Davies
Sent: mercredi 11 mars 2009 22:12
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] Post available at Centre for Life (Please excuse the cross-posting)
Why do we live under this misapprehension that many people in higher paid professions have less job satisfaction than those of us on less generous salaries? I would think that large numbers of 'them' derive huge job satisfaction, not least because they're receiving fair remuneration for the work they do. Perhaps we do need to express concern when posts requiring high levels of skills offer such poor salaries. How else do we show our worth - other than by refusing to apply for the jobs in question, of course.
On 11 Mar 2009, at 13:06, Tania Johnston wrote:
Of course you can live on that much...people live on much less.
Whilst I agree that the salary of this job doesn't necessarily reflect the level of skill required, our line of work is well known for not being that well paid.
What we do get however (speaking on a personal level, but I would hope this rings true with many), is extreme job satisfaction - something which many others in higher paid careers do not in the same way.
For me, the enjoyment I get from this career far outweighs the need/want for being paid a higher salary. I'd much rather have a job and be very happy in it, than be getting paid loads more and being miserable.
________________________________
From: Jenny Beard <[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, 11 March, 2009 11:32:54
Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] Post available at Centre for Life (Please excuse the cross-posting)
I really doubt you can live on that much... Is that all a lab manager is really worth? Bread line stuff...
________________________________
From: psci-com: on public engagement with science [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ben Johnson
Sent: 11 March 2009 11:27
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] Post available at Centre for Life (Please excuse the cross-posting)
Yes. Nuff said. Please.
Ben Johnson
Graphic Science
* +44 (0) 1275 47 44 44
* +44 (0) 7716 771 558
[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
* www.graphicscience.co.uk<http://www.graphicscience.co.uk>
Disclaimer: The author of this email never meant a word of it.
do you really need to print this email?
From: psci-com: on public engagement with science [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Laura Goodall
Sent: 11 March 2009 11:16
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] Post available at Centre for Life (Please excuse the cross-posting)
I second that. 'Nuff said.
________________________________
From: Francis Sedgemore <[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, 11 March, 2009 10:04:48
Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] Post available at Centre for Life (Please excuse the cross-posting)
Skills required: "Knowledge of microbiological procedures, ability to handle DNA and all normal lab chemicals"
Salary: £15,350
Are such skills taught at GCSE level these days?
On 11 Mar 09, at 09:59, Ian Simmons wrote:
The Centre for Life is an award-winning science centre with a twin mission. It encourages curiosity and debate about science through imaginative exhibitions, events, workshops and lectures attracting over 200,000 people per year and also supports world-class scientific research on site.
LABORATORY SUPERVISOR
£15,350 per annum
Full time temporary position to cover maternity leave
Working to the Head of Education you will be responsible for the support and delivery of workshops in Lifelab, science shows and live demonstrations to a wide range of audiences. Duties will include preparation and development of innovative experiments in Lifelab as well as assisting in the planning, research and preparation of new workshops and the resourcing of materials.
You will be confident, approachable and reliable with excellent organisational skills, have a strong science background and be experienced in providing laboratory technical support. Knowledge of microbiological procedures, ability to handle DNA and all normal lab chemicals are essential.
Applicants must be able to work flexible hours as the centre is a seven-day a week business and the role could require weekend and occasional evening work.
The successful applicant will be subject to a CRB disclosure check. Details of our CRB policy are available on request.
To apply, please send a letter of application and current CV to Claire Adams, Corporate Services Director, Centre for Life, Times Square, Newcastle upon Tyne, NE1 4EP by Friday 27th March 2009.
The International Centre for Life is an equal opportunities employer.
Registered Charity Number: 1059607
IAN SIMMONS
Ian Simmons
Science Communication Director
Centre for Life
Management Suite
Times Square
Newcastle upon Tyne
NE1 4EP
Tel: +44191 2438250
Fax: +44191 2438201
Email: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Life - A Centre for world-class science
It's coming...
Newcastle ScienceFest - a 10 day celebration of creativity and innovation for everyone, 6-15 March 2009. Discover more at NewcastleScienceFest.com
Our mission is to inspire curiosity in science through imaginative exhibitions and events, raise standards in science education and support world-class scientific research.
Disclaimer - March 11, 2009
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for [log in to unmask],psci-com:<mailto:[log in to unmask],psci-com:> on public engagement with science. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute, copy or alter this email. Any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and might not represent those of Centre for Life. Warning: Although Centre for Life has taken reasonable precautions to ensure no viruses are present in this email, the company cannot accept responsibility for any loss or damage arising from the use of this email or attachments. ********************************************************************** 1. To suspend yourself from the list, whilst on leave, for example, send an email to mailto:[log in to unmask] with the following messa
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