Cloth (textile) s.str. does not possess hierarchically organized structure.
Nikolay Bogatyrev
Quoting Bob <[log in to unmask]>:
> How about cloth?
>
> Bob Miller
>
> Julian Vincent wrote:
>> You could say that paper is hierarchical in that the hierarchy of
>> the material from which you make it (wood) is not entirely
>> destroyed. This leads to confusion, since paper-makers talk about
>> fibres which we call cells. The nanofibres in the cell wall can be
>> seen by papermakers when they beat the furnish and get fringes of
>> cellulose nanofibres sticking out and interacting with nanofibres
>> from other cells. So paper is hierarchical, but as far as man is
>> concerned it's by default! Some papers are made from nanofibres
>> direct and they are very stiff. Bacterial cellulose has been used
>> to make the loudspeaker cones of ear-pieces (though I expect
>> technology has moved on since then).
>>
>> Julian
>>
>> On 19 Mar 2009, at 15:40, a.g.atkins wrote:
>>
>>> How small are the smallest fibres in paper? Aren't they greater
>>> than the smallest microstructural features?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mar 19 2009, Olga Bogatyreva wrote:
>>>
>>>> No. Paper is the result of total destruction of the initial
>>>> timber hierarchical organisation and also withdrawal of lignin,
>>>> resins, etc. and then making the new material from that what is
>>>> left without special strucutre and hierarchy.
>>>>
>>>> Nikolay
>>>>
>>>> Quoting "a.g.atkins" <[log in to unmask]>:
>>>>
>>>>> Paper, too, as well as rope?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 18 2009, Julian Vincent wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I agree entirely about taking biologicl concepts and putting
>>>>>> them into an engineering context. A fair amount of the
>>>>>> advantage is lost. One answer is to take a cue from biology
>>>>>> at a deeper level. You don't need to get organisms to make
>>>>>> things for you, but perhaps use the idea of assembling
>>>>>> components rather than synthesising them. At present rope
>>>>>> is one of the few materials we have which is assembled
>>>>>> hierarchically. This embodies quite a few attributes of
>>>>>> biological systems. There are as many levels of hierarchy
>>>>>> in a single hair as in an aircraft sitting on the tarmac in
>>>>>> an airport. There are other advantages in assembly such as
>>>>>> control of fracture behaviour. Have a look at Vincent,
>>>>>> J.F.V., Biomimetic materials. Journal of Materials Research,
>>>>>> 2008. 23: p. 3140-3147 for a more complete exposition.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Julian
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> MA, PhD, DSc, FRES, MIMMM, CEng, FIMechE
>>>>>> Laburnum Cottage
>>>>>> 48 Frome Road
>>>>>> Odd Down
>>>>>> BATH
>>>>>> BA2 2QB
>>>>>> tel: 01225 835076
>>>>>> Mob: 07941 933 901
>>>>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 18 Mar 2009, at 22:13, Samuel Bautista Lazo wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi all!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In the design for sustainable products I was wondering why
>>>>>>> most of the Biomimetic efforts are aimed at mimicking
>>>>>>> nature to improve the functionality of products but at the
>>>>>>> end the improved products are still made out of synthetic
>>>>>>> materials (the geko tape, or the Spedo fastskin swimming
>>>>>>> suit, lotusan paint)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What are the challenges for using biological processes and
>>>>>>> metabolisms to sustainabilly produce the materials we need to
>>>>>>> obtain the functionality for everyday products?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Using those materials can we design biological manufacturing
>>>>>>> proceses to make the products we need for a sustainable
>>>>>>> future?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If we can may be that would reduce the burden on the
>>>>>>> environment and the consumption of non renewable resources
>>>>>>> or even more may be that could contribute to restorative
>>>>>>> production/consumption systems.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 4:19 PM, Manfred Drack
>>>>>>> <[log in to unmask]
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In my PhD thesis I came to the conclusion that energy
>>>>>>> efficiency is not the main issue when it comes to material
>>>>>>> use in organisms (cf. Ref. below). Why certain materials
>>>>>>> are used seems to be a result of certain constraints.
>>>>>>> Perhaps there were more materials "at hand" at the
>>>>>>> beginning of evolution, but some turned out to be better
>>>>>>> adapted than others. Once certain materials were utilized
>>>>>>> there was no way back. There may be similarities to form
>>>>>>> and structure constraints. An example is our spine, a
>>>>>>> torpedo-bridge-tower-construction, i.e. in fish it serves a
>>>>>>> shape adopted to swimming, in quadrupeds the construction
>>>>>>> was bridge like, and in humans (bipeds) tower like.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Title: Bionics and Ecodesign: how are materials used in
>>>>>>> nature, and what can thus be applied to sustainable product
>>>>>>> design?
>>>>>>> Author(s): Drack, M
>>>>>>> Conference Information: 1st International Conference on Design
>>>>>>> and Nature, Date: 2002 UDINE ITALY
>>>>>>> Source: DESIGN AND NATURE: COMPARING DESIGN IN NATURE WITH
>>>>>>> SCIENCE AND ENGINEERING Volume: 3 Pages: 369-378
>>>>>>> Published: 2002
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yours,
>>>>>>> Manfred
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Timothy McGee schrieb:
>>>>>>> **Julian,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have also wondered the same thing, and even taking it a step
>>>>>>> more detailed- why these particular Amino Acids?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nikolay's and Steven's comments reminded me of a quote:
>>>>>>> *
>>>>>>> "When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it
>>>>>>> hitched to everything else in the Universe." - John Muir
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *A study by Greg Engle
>>>>>>> (http://www.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/Archive/PBD-quantum-secrets.html
>>>>>>> ), gave me an idea. The key challenge to any organization of
>>>>>>> matter is energy...in whatever framework you wish to use,
>>>>>>> entropy, thermodynamics, etc... but it appears that the
>>>>>>> quantum interactions of these particular 21 Amino Acids allow
>>>>>>> the capture and transfer of light to chemically stored
>>>>>>> energy...this in itself
>>>>>>> might explain the 'history' of these particular amino acids
>>>>>>> for the polymers of life- or at least could be part of the
>>>>>>> story.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>> Tim
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Samuel Bautista Lazo
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> UNIVERSITY OF LIVERPOOL
>>>>>>> PhD Research Student
>>>>>>> Design for Sustainability: Industrial Methods
>>>>>>> Cellphone: +44 753 856 0787
>>>>>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> skype: samuel.bautista.lazo
>>>>>>> www.geocities.com/dixzarugs
>>>>>>> www.dixzarugs.etsy.com
>>>>>>> www.youtube.com/dixza
>>>>>>> www.flickr.com/dixza
>>>>>>> http://www.dixza.blogspot.com/
>>>>>>> www.flickr.com/teotitlan
>>>>>>> http://blogs.ebay.com/dixza
>>>>>>> http://dixza.podbean.com/
>>>>>>> www.metroflog.com/dixza
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> messenger: [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> =
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> =
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