Well said, both of you!
I have more important things to do than delete spam, hence I will  
unsubscribe today. Hopefully I will find another list to provide me  
with information about conferences etc.


Bjrøg H. Krogh Andersen, Norway

Den 9. jan.. 2009 kl. 19.34 skrev Mathieu Albert:

> I couldn't agree more with H.-H. Noll.
> Please stop the spam or unsubscribe me from the list.
>
> Mathieu Albert
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Newsletter of the European Sociological Association (ESA)
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of H.-H. Noll
> Sent: January 9, 2009 1:23 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: AW: please discuss politics elsewhere
>
> As it seems, the 'gentle reminder' of the list manager does not  
> help. If
> there are no other possibilites to stop this spam, we'll have to
> unsubscribe from this list!
>
> H.-H. Noll
>
>
> David Seddon schrieb:
>> Dear Herr Pohoryles - you clearly were not listening then.
>>
>> The bitter divisions within the Palestinian political movement are a
>> matter of historical record, all the way back to 1967 and before.  
>> Many of
>> us who broadly sympathise with the situation of the Palestinian
>> politicans, faced with legacy both of internal division and also of
>> massive and persistent repression by the Israeli government and its  
>> armed
>> forces over a period 60 years, have nevertheless criticised them for
>> failing to overcome these divisions and present a principled,  
>> coherent and
>> effective, united front, representing in a democratic fashion the  
>> wishes
>> and desires of the Palestinian people and their opposition to the  
>> illegal
>> occupation of the West Bank and Gaza by Israel and to Israel's  
>> efforts to
>> deny the Palestinian people their own independent state (or  
>> alternatively
>> a real equal stake in a single unified Palestinian/Israeli state)..
>>
>> Having lived for two years in South Africa, and having left because  
>> of the
>> unacceptable restrictions of apartheid, I maintain a strong  
>> interest in
>> and concern for the welfare of the people of South Africa and the  
>> struggle
>> they continue to wage to secure effective democratic representation  
>> and
>> sustainable development. The hostility that was shown by some  
>> sections of
>> the Black African population in the Transvaal in particular towards
>> immigrant and migrant workers and asylum seekers from Zimbabwe, was
>> deplorable, but understandable - just as the violence pereptrated on
>> Israeli civilians by Palestinian para-military groups is delorable,  
>> but
>> understandable - in the circumstances of continued repression and  
>> poverty.
>>
>> The difference between South Africa today and Israel/Palestine  
>> today, is
>> that the formal structures of apartheid have been dismantled in South
>> Africa but remain, stronger than ever, in the case of Israel/ 
>> Palestine.
>> Although inequality and social injustice remain, the political  
>> framework
>> has changed in South Africa in the last decade, for the better; in  
>> Israel,
>> the last decade has seen ever more aggressive state intervention to
>> deprive the Palestinians of their land, their livelihoods, their
>> (admittedly limited degree of) autonomy under occupation, and their
>> identity, using a variety of methods to create a distinctive form of
>> apartheid and to destroy the economy and society - and any hope of a
>> normal life - within the 'bantustans' of the West Bank and Gaza.
>>
>> Just as poor South Africans, under pressure, lashed out at those  
>> they saw
>> as threatening their livelihoods, but whose situation was arguably  
>> even
>> worse than their own, so supporters of Hamas and al-Fatah (and other
>> groups) have fought each other bitterly, in desperation,  
>> undermining their
>> own potential for unity against Israeli oppression.
>>
>> david seddon
>>
>>
>>> STOP THIS
>>>
>>> I haven't heard anything from you when the Hamas slaughtered in an
>>> barbaric way Fatah people during the civil war in Gaza. Neither  
>>> anything
>>> about the killing of migrant workers and asylum seekers in South  
>>> Africa.
>>>
>>> You just react, when Jews are involved...
>>>
>>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>>> Von: Newsletter of the European Sociological Association (ESA)
>>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Im Auftrag von David  
>>> Seddon
>>> Gesendet: Freitag, 09. Jänner 2009 16:51
>>> An: [log in to unmask]
>>> Betreff: Re: please discuss politics elsewhere
>>>
>>> what IS sociology if not a critical mode of analysis and discourse
> devoted
>>> to making sense of complex issues in society, contemporary and  
>>> past -
>>> those of us involved in debate in this company of colleagues are
>>> unavoidably engaged in a critique of political positions adopted  
>>> on the
>>> basis of some kind of ssocial analysis and understanding.
>>>
>>> I do not agree that the attempt to promote the institutional  
>>> academic
>>> boycott is 'anti-sociological' in so far as it is a political action
> based
>>> on an analysis of the historical, political-economic and  
>>> sociological
>>> situation in a particular region of the world that has serious
>>> implications not only for those living in the societies and social
>>> formations directly concerned but also for those living elsewhere  
>>> but
>>> indirectly concerned in various ways.
>>>
>>> The contemporary crisis of Palestinian/Israeli politics is deeply
>>> associated with the historical realities and the different  
>>> perceptions
>>> (American, European, Middle Eastern) of the development of Israeli  
>>> and
>>> Palestinian society, the sociology of the British Mandate, European
>>> visions of Arab and Jewish society in the territory, and Arab and  
>>> Jewish
>>> perceptions of possible futures during the first half of the 20th
> century.
>>> If European sociologists are not interested in these issues and  
>>> their
>>> significance, then shame on them.
>>>
>>> david seddon
>>>
>>>> Dear Rene,
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for your intervention. However, I feel it was  
>>>> misplaced. The
>>>> attempt to raise a boycott was itself anti-sociological, because it
>>>> would silence rather than open dialogue.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I feel very strongly that in this crisis sociological  
>>>> understanding is
>>>> important, when it is distanced from campaigns for the partisan
>>>> promotion of ideological positions.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I agree that some of the postings have been outside the terms of  
>>>> use of
>>>> the list, but I hope you do not mean that European sociology  
>>>> should not
>>>> reflect on and engage sociologically with politics and political  
>>>> issues.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> For instance, the last three postings have drawn attention to  
>>>> sources
>>>> that are sociologically relevant to the current crisis which had  
>>>> been
>>>> raised as an issue on this list by the email campaign for a  
>>>> boycott.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dr Michael  S. Drake
>>>>
>>>> Lecturer and Undergraduate Programme Director for Sociology
>>>>
>>>> Department of Social Sciences
>>>>
>>>> University of Hull
>>>>
>>>> Cottingham Road
>>>>
>>>> Hull
>>>>
>>>> HU6 7RX
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Tel.: +44 (0)1482 465770
>>>>
>>>> email: [log in to unmask]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: Newsletter of the European Sociological Association (ESA)
>>>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of  
>>>> Bekkers, R.
>>>> (Rene)
>>>> Sent: 09 January 2009 14:19
>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>> Subject: please discuss politics elsewhere
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dear members,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This is a message from one of the European-sociologist list  
>>>> managers.
>>>> I'd like to remind all of you that the list is intended as a tool
>>>> facilitating cooperation and discussion in European sociology. See
>>>> http://www.europeansociology.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&
>>>> id=17&Itemid=36
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We've seen quite some postings in the past weeks discussing an  
>>>> academic
>>>> boycott. As these messages concerned academic matters, I felt  
>>>> there was
>>>> no need to close or moderate the list. But lately the messages  
>>>> sent to
>>>> the list seem to get less and less connected to research and  
>>>> teaching in
>>>> sociology. So this is a gentle reminder to all of you of the  
>>>> purpose of
>>>> the list. There are plenty of opportunities to discuss politics and
>>>> matters not related to European sociology elsewhere on the  
>>>> internet.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Rene Bekkers
>>>>
>>>> European-sociologist list manager
>>>>
>>>>
> ****************************************************************************
> *************
>>>> To view the terms under which this email is distributed, please  
>>>> go to
>>>> http://www.hull.ac.uk/legal/email_disclaimer.html
>>>>
> ****************************************************************************
> *************
>>>>
>
>