I agree whole heartedly, I was just expressing an opinion, and as I said I do not believe in any religious text, nor am not 'in the field' so my thoughts can be disregarded.
Terry Griner
-----Original Message-----
From: Arch-Metals Group [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Scott Mackenzie
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 9:26 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: LDS scripture and "bathing" a sword
I really don't want this to degenerate into the various merits of various value or belief systems. Perhaps the best thing at this point is to focus on the word of Isaiah 34 as this appears to have a strong similarity to the language used.....
D. Scott MacKenzie, PhD
Technical Specialist - Heat Treating Products Houghton International, Inc.
Madison and Van Buren Aves.
484-467-0285 (cell)
610-666-4007 (office)
-----Original Message-----
From: Arch-Metals Group [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Bart Torbert
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 9:18 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: LDS scripture and "bathing" a sword
After many attempts both by Mormons and "Gentiles" (the Mormon term for the rest of us) not one scrap of archaeological evidence has been found to support the storyline in the Book of Mormon. This is not all blind prejudice, just a lack of hard data.
As an aside, I do feel that there was Old World influence in the Americas before Columbus. This is the starting point for the Book of Mormon tale. I just don't' see any evidence for Smith's scenario.
Bart
-----Original Message-----
From: Arch-Metals Group [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Terry Griner
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 6:56 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: LDS scripture and "bathing" a sword
I find it very amusing that many members on this list would ridicule the LDS mythology, and then support the 'main stream' Christian mythology. It is interesting also to see folks who would accept that a pile of charred wood with metal fragments in the desert of Iraq accept it as an archeological site, but when it is suggested that the same pile if found in Mexico, or in the deserts of the US, it would not be considered as worthy site. Or it might even be considered a hoax.
Please don't get me wrong, I do not believe in the book of Mormon as a true history, nor do I believe ANY religious book holds the true history.
Each of
them may have historically accurate information, but not taken as a single source. I believe that ALL sites should be considered, investigated and evaluated. Not dismissed out of hand.
I am not an archeologist, I am a hobby metal caster/historical recreator, so those who have had their feelings hurt by what I have said can dismiss me as an uneducated outsider. I just ask that everyone try to maintain an open mind.
Terry Griner
-----Original Message-----
From: Arch-Metals Group [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of David Lines
Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 10:50 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: LDS scripture and "bathing" a sword
A transliteration of the Hebrew in Isaiah 34 (from the Interlinear
Bible) would be "drenched in the heavens". A lot of English translations carry the idea of "satiated", or "drunk its fill". It'd be a big stretch to get that to include quenching or any other kind of metal work, UNLESS some of the old languages used words similar to "satisfy" to describe a quenching process. After all, an Englishman might "quench" his thirst with a beer, but that doesn't mean he's hardening his throat. But if he heats his blade and "quenches" it, it's a whole other story. I'm going to put this question to a friend who has studied ancient languages.
David
Bart Torbert wrote:
> This looks like a rehash of verbage in *Isaiah 34.*
> **
> *Bart*
> **
> **
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* Arch-Metals Group [mailto:[log in to unmask]] *On
> Behalf Of *Scott Mackenzie
> *Sent:* Monday, January 05, 2009 2:18 PM
> *To:* [log in to unmask]
> *Subject:* Re: LDS scripture and "bathing" a sword
>
> That was what I gathered....I was wondering if there was any
greater
> significance than I was aware ...my gut was right then.
>
> I appreciate your help. I was just trying to answer the
> question...At least I provided every one with a good laugh....
>
> J
>
> **D. Scott MacKenzie, PhD**
>
> Technical Specialist - Heat Treating Products
>
> **Houghton International, Inc.**
>
> Madison and Van Buren Aves.
>
> 484-467-0285 (cell)
>
> 610-666-4007 (office)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>
> *From:* Arch-Metals Group [mailto:[log in to unmask]] *On
> Behalf Of *John Scott
> *Sent:* Monday, January 05, 2009 4:12 PM
> *To:* [log in to unmask]
> *Subject:* LDS scripture and "bathing" a sword
>
> Helloooo, are you and your correspondent serious? Or, it's not yet
> April 1....
>
> Scriptures on golden tablets were reportedly deposited in NE USA
> at unknown date by angels, then reportedly dug up by Joseph Smith
> mid-19c CE. Smith reportedly transcribed the scriptures before
> reportedly losing the tablets, which have to all knowledge never
> been recovered. The reported transcripts were indeed adopted as
> LDS scripture and carried west to Missouri and Utah.
>
> Your most charitable advice to your clients should be that after
> he identifies Smith's prior sources of religio-history he should
> get back to you with any phrases worthy of historical - technical
> study regarding actual production processes.
>
> On the other hand as a literary image I'd go for simple and
> direct: the sword must be raised on high -- bathed in heaven --
> before falling upon etc.
>
> ~ John
>
> John Scott
>
> In a message dated 1/5/2009 2:16:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> [log in to unmask] writes:
>
> All:
>
> I recently received an email from someone who had read a paper
> I had written on "The History of Quenching".
>
> He was reading a passage in Church of the Latter Day Saints,
> Doctrine and Covenants Section 1, verse 13,
> http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/1:
>
> "And the anger <http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/dc/1/13a> of
> the Lord is kindled, and his sword
> <http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/dc/1/13b> is //bathed// in
> heaven, and it shall fall upon the inhabitants of the earth."
>
> I would gather that this passage would be interpreted as
> immediately prior to the end of days when the righteous and
> wicked are separated.
>
> Is "bathing" a sword prior to battle holding it high to be
> bless; or is it coating the sword with some material like
> garlic to impart "special properties"; or is it something
> entirely different? Could it be implying the quenching process
> and hardening the blade?
>
> Is there any historical rituals used by either craftsmen or
> warriors prior to going in to battle?
>
> I appreciate the help.
>
> Scott
>
> **D. Scott MacKenzie, PhD**
>
> Technical Specialist - Heat Treating Products
>
> **Houghton International, Inc.**
>
> Madison and Van Buren Aves.
>
> 484-467-0285 (cell)
>
> 610-666-4007 (office)
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>
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>
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