Lita
Thank you - interesting perspective -
I guess the ultimate answer to the question -
which is a v old one - is mystical speculation
and as such is part of the object of magical religion?
I think some of the eastern ontologies have interesting things to say
about this - although often excluded from the academy* -
which thinks it has refuted Descartes and his challenging version of the
ancient Dualist philosophy.
I wonder if the Deleuzian thing references some Hindu Dualist philosophy
where "decoupling" is theorized but the
spiritual entity that "returns to the source" takes a subtle part ofthe
body along - thus the concept of the "Jiva" -
which has all the "modal" (molecular?) aspects of consciousness (the
senses etc) apart from "earth"?
"Love and do what you will"
Mogg
* Anthony Flew once wrote that there was no rational thought east of Suez.
Crociani-Windland wrote:
>
> Happy New Year folks,
>
> I am really interested in the mind-body thread and it has moved me to
> de-lurking.
>
> Without claiming to a particularly informed view on this I wonder if
> whether the difficulty in thinking about this issue is how we
> conceptualise the boundary between spiritual and material reality. I
> agree with Mogg that from an observable and logical perspective a
> level of decoupling is evident, but is it a decoupling from all kinds
> and levels of physical substance or could we think of it as at a far
> more subtle level, molecular to use Deleuzian terms? In this sense we
> would have to think of the body as less boundaried and connectivity
> and modulation as the fundamental aspects that allow such practices
> and events. In this sense there is no separation of tool and body,
> body and world, just more or less permeable spheres of influence and
> influencing.
>
> Maybe this has already been touched on, but I had to delete a load of
> e-mails recently because of system overload...
>
> Lita
>
>
> Dr. Lita Crociani-Windland
> Faculty of Social Sciences and Humanities,
> University of the West of England,
> Bristol BS16 1QY
> E-mail: [log in to unmask]
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Society for The Academic Study of Magic on behalf of mandrake
> Sent: Thu 01/01/2009 09:56
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] Mind & Body
>
> steve ash et al
>
> wrote:
>
> "My problem with that is it implies we are separate from our bodies, a
> kind of alienation, a tool is usually seen as an extension to 'us',
> but in this case we actually are our bodies. We may or may not be more
> than our physical bodies, but we remain as our physical body, rather
> than having a vehicle or a tool, don't we?"
>
>
> re:
> Well that's the question - opinions vary as we know : )
> An important thread within magick is surely that there is some
> separation between mind and body -
> and that the mind, soul, atman (whatever you want to call it) is a
> spiritual substance that can return to the source etc.
> I'm not sure how Pagan theology/cosmology etc can work otherwise and all
> the techniques of "astral projection"; "path working", "dream
> incubation" etc etc.
>
> But even if these questions don't both you - from a purely naturalistic
> perspective - we can do things with our bodies and we can do things that
> are more mentalistic -
> thus we can practice yoga (physical postures) on the basis that they
> have a special impact on thinking (they calm the mind etc) .
> There are probable other examples of physical practices that can have
> some sort of gnostic effect -
> so-called "sexual magick" for example - or "Tantra"
> isn't that about using the physical as a tool to liberate the mental??
>
> From memory I think the Marcel Maus article is called "Techniques of
> the Body" -
> (I had terrible trouble finding this as a undergrad - asking libraries
> for books by M Mouse - you can imagine)
>
> bb/93
>
> Mogg
>
> PS: As to Tarot another possible origin for Tarot images is the
> Renaissance carnival
> (see J Burckhardt "Civilization of the Renaissance in Italy") - Don't
> know the Parsival myth enough to say whether it is crucial -
> according to Wiccan tradition the Tarot represents the journey of Horus
> - from "Fool" (disenfranchised) to "Kingship".
>
>
> > --- On Thu, 1/1/09, ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC automatic digest system
> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> > Re: Bodies as tools
> >
> > My problem with that is it implies we are separate from our bodies,
> a kind of alienation, a tool is usually seen as an extension to 'us',
> but in this case we actually are our bodies. We may or may not be more
> than our physical bodies, but we remain as our physical body, rather
> than having a vehicle or a tool, don't we?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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>
>
>
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