The Opie's study remains a central reference point: as Mark says ,
kids pass on to kids, not adults to kids, so you have this sub-world
of the little, all of which we big ones were once part of, but only
imperfectly remember.
Best
Dave
2008/12/26 Mark Weiss <[log in to unmask]>:
> They also recite, and have recited to them, rhymes half a millenium old
> (think of Jack and Jill--it's a long time since urban children have had to
> fetch pails of water). Very little if any of this seems to be internalized
> as prescriptions for adult behavior, as witness the quite casual increase in
> born out of wedlock children in all social classes and educational levels.
> Some of those kids are chanting Ken's rhyme, with no selfconsciousness.
>
> When Carlos was about eight his mother and I worried that he might be
> blindsided by some gossip, so we decided to tell him that she and his father
> had not married until Carlos was 2. This had no impact on him whatsoever.
> Why should it? His mother and I, like half his friends' parents, were living
> "in sin." The parents of most of the rest were married to a non-parent.
>
> Childlore is passed on from child to slightly younger child. It survives
> because it binds the group, it's fun to recite or sing, and it's a handy
> marker for rhythmic games, like jump rope.
>
> Mark
>
> At 12:28 PM 12/26/2008, you wrote:
>>
>> What's odd is the idea that kids might still be chanting rhymes that
>> assert such '50s 'values' as love/marriage/baby carriage in immutable
>> order. At what point do they realize that the world around them
>> doesn't match?
>>
>> Susan H.
>>
>> On Dec 26, 2008, at 9:18 AM, Kenneth Wolman wrote:
>>
>>> Janet Jackson wrote:
>>>>
>>>> My kids (12 and 10) andn their school friends still chant rhymes.
>>>> Some the
>>>> same as I remember from the 70s:
>>>>
>>>> [snip]
>>>> X and Y, sitting in a tree / K.I.S.S.I.N.G.
>>>
>>> I thought this was a confined-to-America thing. The one I heard has
>>> a second line with some interesting social assumptions:
>>>
>>> First comes love, then comes marriage
>>> Then comes X with a baby carriage.
>>>
>>> I don't even want to get into the social-sounding stuff here, you
>>> can do it for yourself.
>>>
>>> Ken, from Washougal, Washington
>
--
David Bircumshaw
Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/
The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk
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