I would timidly hazard that the greatest poetry of the twentieth
century was in Russian and Spanish, plus Paul Celan, I don't think any
twentieth century British or American poets are in the same league.
2008/12/10 andrew burke <[log in to unmask]>:
> Well, I argued with that list, certainly, but have often felt there was a
> progressiveness and an essential energy in USA and other post-colonial
> literature in English that was not shown by the British poets. A sweeping
> generalisation, surely, but I find I go to the US stacks in the library for
> pleasure more often than the British - although Edwin Morgan is one of my
> favourite all time poets, and the great Irish are in a league of their own.
>
> I put the article up for discussion, to expand the subjects currently on
> offer at p'etc. The list needs a heart-starter or two.
>
> Andrew
>
> 2008/12/10 Alison Croggon <[log in to unmask]>
>
>> What a depressing article, Andrew! And what a strange depiction of
>> British/Irish poetry -
>>
>> "Obviously there have been changes in style between 1830 and the
>> present: a modernisation of language including the abandonment of
>> archaisms; a cautious willingness to write without rhyme though not
>> usually without recognisable metre; a lessening of overt rhetoric. But
>> none of these changes has affected the central tradition of English
>> verse since the early 19th century, the essential feature of which is
>> language which is restrained, always grammatical and valued both
>> thoughtful decoration – the well-placed adjective, metonymy or simile
>> – and for plangent cadence, often expressing a sense of loss."
>>
>> I guess it follows obediently enough the New Penguin Book of English
>> Verse (or suchlike), in which everything slumps markedly after about
>> 1950, mainly because the poets doing the most interesting work seem to
>> have been left out. Laurie Smith is clearly unaware of the wonderful
>> poets who have bubbled up in the in that small island in the 20C - Roy
>> Fisher, Peter Redgrove, Edwin Morgan, Penelope Shuttle, Douglas
>> Oliver, Jeremy Prynne, Penelope Shuttle, Denise Riley, Geoffrey Hill,
>> just to name a few off the top of my head. None of whom are
>> recognisable in that description.
>>
>> Whether they're "great" or not is probably something for 50 years
>> time. I'd say more than a couple were. Whatever "great" means. If it
>> means writing great poems, yeah.
>>
>> xA
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 8:37 AM, Jon Corelis <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>> >> Did Britain Produce ANY Great 20th Century Poets?
>> >
>> > Yes
>> >
>> >> At one point in the article, Smith asks why all the "indisputably" great
>> >> 20th century poets are either American or Irish.
>> >
>> > I assume that's supposed to be "English-language poets."
>> >
>> >> He cites:
>> >>
>> >> *T.S. Eliot
>> >> Ezra Pound
>> >> Wallace Stevens
>> >> Robert Lowell
>> >> Sylvia Plath
>> >> W.B. Yeats
>> >> Seamus Heaney*
>> >
>> > Only four of those are great.
>> >
>> >>
>> >> He suggests various British possibilities. On most lists would be:
>> >>
>> >> *Edward Thomas
>> >> Wilfred Owen
>> >> W.H. Auden
>> >> Dylan Thomas
>> >> Ted Hughes*
>> >>
>> >
>> > Only one of those is great.
>> >
>> >> and some would make a case for:
>> >>
>> >> *Basil Bunting
>> >> William Empson
>> >> Philip Larkin
>> >> W.S. Graham
>> >> R.S. Thomas*
>> >
>> > Two of those are near great.
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Do you agree with Laurie Smith's lists?
>> >
>> > No.
>> >
>> > >For instance, does Ezra Pound,
>> >> undeniably a great editor, also qualify as a great poet?
>> >
>> > Yes.
>> >
>> >>Is Sylvia Plath's *
>> >> Ariel* collection sufficient to justify her inclusion (her other work
>> may be
>> >> accomplished, but is it 'great?')?
>> >
>> > No. No.
>> >
>> >>Are Edward Thomas and Wilfred Owen among
>> >> the very best Britain has to offer?
>> >>
>> >
>> > No.
>> >
>> >> And if you were asked to pick the seven most influential poets of the
>> 20th
>> >> century, who would you choose? How many UK poets make the grade?
>> >>
>> >
>> > Again, among English speaking poets, and keeping in mind that most
>> > influential doesn't necessarily mean best: Eliot, Pound, Yeats,
>> > Williams, Stevens, Auden, Plath.
>> >
>> > But seven best: Eliot, Pound, Yeats, Williams, Stevens, Thomas, Larkin.
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> > "There's plenty of hope, but not for us."
>> >
>> > -- Kafka
>> >
>> > ===============================================
>> >
>> > Jon Corelis http://jcorelis.googlepages.com/joncorelis
>> >
>> > ===============================================
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Editor, Masthead: http://www.masthead.net.au
>> Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com
>> Home page: http://www.alisoncroggon.com
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Andrew
> http://hispirits.blogspot.com/
>
--
David Bircumshaw
Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/
The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk
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