Well, I argued with that list, certainly, but have often felt there was a
progressiveness and an essential energy in USA and other post-colonial
literature in English that was not shown by the British poets. A sweeping
generalisation, surely, but I find I go to the US stacks in the library for
pleasure more often than the British - although Edwin Morgan is one of my
favourite all time poets, and the great Irish are in a league of their own.
I put the article up for discussion, to expand the subjects currently on
offer at p'etc. The list needs a heart-starter or two.
Andrew
2008/12/10 Alison Croggon <[log in to unmask]>
> What a depressing article, Andrew! And what a strange depiction of
> British/Irish poetry -
>
> "Obviously there have been changes in style between 1830 and the
> present: a modernisation of language including the abandonment of
> archaisms; a cautious willingness to write without rhyme though not
> usually without recognisable metre; a lessening of overt rhetoric. But
> none of these changes has affected the central tradition of English
> verse since the early 19th century, the essential feature of which is
> language which is restrained, always grammatical and valued both
> thoughtful decoration – the well-placed adjective, metonymy or simile
> – and for plangent cadence, often expressing a sense of loss."
>
> I guess it follows obediently enough the New Penguin Book of English
> Verse (or suchlike), in which everything slumps markedly after about
> 1950, mainly because the poets doing the most interesting work seem to
> have been left out. Laurie Smith is clearly unaware of the wonderful
> poets who have bubbled up in the in that small island in the 20C - Roy
> Fisher, Peter Redgrove, Edwin Morgan, Penelope Shuttle, Douglas
> Oliver, Jeremy Prynne, Penelope Shuttle, Denise Riley, Geoffrey Hill,
> just to name a few off the top of my head. None of whom are
> recognisable in that description.
>
> Whether they're "great" or not is probably something for 50 years
> time. I'd say more than a couple were. Whatever "great" means. If it
> means writing great poems, yeah.
>
> xA
>
> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 8:37 AM, Jon Corelis <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> >> Did Britain Produce ANY Great 20th Century Poets?
> >
> > Yes
> >
> >> At one point in the article, Smith asks why all the "indisputably" great
> >> 20th century poets are either American or Irish.
> >
> > I assume that's supposed to be "English-language poets."
> >
> >> He cites:
> >>
> >> *T.S. Eliot
> >> Ezra Pound
> >> Wallace Stevens
> >> Robert Lowell
> >> Sylvia Plath
> >> W.B. Yeats
> >> Seamus Heaney*
> >
> > Only four of those are great.
> >
> >>
> >> He suggests various British possibilities. On most lists would be:
> >>
> >> *Edward Thomas
> >> Wilfred Owen
> >> W.H. Auden
> >> Dylan Thomas
> >> Ted Hughes*
> >>
> >
> > Only one of those is great.
> >
> >> and some would make a case for:
> >>
> >> *Basil Bunting
> >> William Empson
> >> Philip Larkin
> >> W.S. Graham
> >> R.S. Thomas*
> >
> > Two of those are near great.
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Do you agree with Laurie Smith's lists?
> >
> > No.
> >
> > >For instance, does Ezra Pound,
> >> undeniably a great editor, also qualify as a great poet?
> >
> > Yes.
> >
> >>Is Sylvia Plath's *
> >> Ariel* collection sufficient to justify her inclusion (her other work
> may be
> >> accomplished, but is it 'great?')?
> >
> > No. No.
> >
> >>Are Edward Thomas and Wilfred Owen among
> >> the very best Britain has to offer?
> >>
> >
> > No.
> >
> >> And if you were asked to pick the seven most influential poets of the
> 20th
> >> century, who would you choose? How many UK poets make the grade?
> >>
> >
> > Again, among English speaking poets, and keeping in mind that most
> > influential doesn't necessarily mean best: Eliot, Pound, Yeats,
> > Williams, Stevens, Auden, Plath.
> >
> > But seven best: Eliot, Pound, Yeats, Williams, Stevens, Thomas, Larkin.
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > "There's plenty of hope, but not for us."
> >
> > -- Kafka
> >
> > ===============================================
> >
> > Jon Corelis http://jcorelis.googlepages.com/joncorelis
> >
> > ===============================================
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Editor, Masthead: http://www.masthead.net.au
> Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com
> Home page: http://www.alisoncroggon.com
>
--
Andrew
http://hispirits.blogspot.com/
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