Yes, I was hoping that my interpretation would not be misconstrued as
"Christian," and perhaps it was not the catalyst for these comments anyway.
Christianity is not a very old religion. My generalized take on
appropriation of material from one tradition to the next is that yes, it
commonly happens. One point that I'd hoped my interpretation would bring to
light is that some "shamanic" practices and experiences are universally
human. No tradition has "authentic" claim over them. Many traditions pass on
myths that can be interpreted as metaphors for an identical anthropocentric
phenomenon.
All Best,
Kathryn
----- Original Message -----
From: "mandrake" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 2:52 PM
Subject: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] Havamal
> Chas et al
>
> The studies of the Nordic religion I rely on have always been willing to
> acknowledge the _possibility_ of some Christian influence -
> but on the other hand isn't it usually that the Christians fixed upon a
> _pre-existing_ myth or ritual practice and identified it with one of
> their own myths -
> it's surely right to also notice the differences between Odin's ritual
> action
> and the memories of the Crucifixion of Christ - in the end there are
> important differences?
> Odin's can also be compared to other initiations on "trees", poles,
> pillars etc ??
> As I say, the argument surely is that the Christians seized upon
> existing myths in order to make them fit with
> their own ideas of dying and resurrecting god
> (Odin doesn't die, neither does Mithras, another myth system
> "appropriated" by the Christian theologians??)
>
> In my own recent research I've been looking at the Corpus Hermeticum -
> which also has a remarkably, apocalyptic prophecy - the model for NT
> Book of Revelation -
> but in fact a prophecy of the Egypt's doom. It came true in more ways
> than one -
> and this was seized upon by the Christians as evidence that their
> religion's time had come?
>
> So if there is Christian influence - it may be part of the same pattern
> and
> does not empty the original Odinic ritual of all its meaning - by no
means.
>
> "Love and do what you will"
>
> Mogg Morgan
>
> >
> > I suspect that the interpenetration of religious imagery went both ways,
> > but primarily from Christianity to Norse Paganism -- or at least the
> > late and literary form of Norse Paganism.
> >
> > Some people, however, will not want to hear that. They may be
> > emotionally invested in the idea of conversion and of the Norse gods
> > being false gods and demons. Conversely, they may be invested
> > in the idea of keeping Northern religion pure and untainted by
> > "soft" and "weak" Christianity.
> >
> > If their personal identity requires a sharp break with Christianity,
> > then the idea of Christian influences in the Havamal might
> > be distasteful.
> >
> > This reminds me of something that happened when I was in graduate
> > school in the 1980s.
> > A religious studies professor wrote an excellent book on how the idea
> > of "Mother Earth" could will have been a European literary projection
> > onto American Indian religions that, in turn, was picked up by some
> > Indians and fed back to the whites as pure and authentic.
> >
> > The sharpest attacks on his books came from certain Native American
> > activists.
> >
> > It only adds to the irony that the most vociferous of his attackers,
> > Ward Churchill,
> > was later exposed as a plagiarist and fake and dismissed from the
> > University of Colorado.
> >
> > Draw your own parallels.
> >
> > Chas
> >
|